Date   

Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Sorry I don't understand your issue with what I said... There are links all through the OS that open in edge no matter what your settings... MS has also changed my default search engine from google. to Bing. It is hard to know every instance that this applies too So I was just pointing this out...

On 5/12/2017 2:40 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
go to windows update and click on get more help... It opens in Edge...
On 5/12/2017 1:56 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Randy,

         Then I want the steps to reproduce them.  And this is not because I don't believe you, but because I have not been able to induce what you're describing.
    
          I have never had any search engine "silently changed" to anything with the exception of once during one of the major updates, I think to version 1607, where a bunch of other settings that users can reset got set back to the defaults that Microsoft thought appropriate.   I have expressed my outrage at this practice, or at least not telling people that they need to recheck certain specific settings, repeatedly.

          I just clicked on a link in a Help dialog in MS-Publisher 2010 and it's being presented in Firefox, my default browser.  If I can replicate what you're reporting then I may also be able to figure out how to block it from occurring.  The only thing I've come to accept that I have no control over is what happens with Cortana web search results (always shown in MS-Edge and always produced using Bing Search).
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.




Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

 

Randy,

        You are correct.   Given that what shows up when you initially click on "Get Help" is a Windows Help app, that appears to be using Cortana "under the hood" to do a web search based on what you enter, this result is not surprising.   Anything that Microsoft is keeping inside the new Universal Apps presentation (for lack of a better way of phrasing it) is funneling straight to Cortana, Edge, and Bing.

         The original poster asked about opening PDF files with a program of her choosing, as opposed to Edge, and having links clicked in Outlook open in the web browser of her choice.  Both of these are easily accomplished, and permanently, barring another of the major updates that might change those settings.  Since there has been a huge outcry about resetting those settings that the user can reconfigure without their knowledge it appears that Microsoft is trying to move away from this practice (that they never should have indulged in in the first place).

           My initial statements in this thread are, indeed, correct if one looks at how certain exceptions are actually being produced.  If it involves Cortana, whether explicitly or implicitly, then one is definitely saddled with the Cortana-Edge-Bing thruple.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

go to windows update and click on get more help... It opens in Edge...

On 5/12/2017 1:56 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Randy,

         Then I want the steps to reproduce them.  And this is not because I don't believe you, but because I have not been able to induce what you're describing.
    
          I have never had any search engine "silently changed" to anything with the exception of once during one of the major updates, I think to version 1607, where a bunch of other settings that users can reset got set back to the defaults that Microsoft thought appropriate.   I have expressed my outrage at this practice, or at least not telling people that they need to recheck certain specific settings, repeatedly.

          I just clicked on a link in a Help dialog in MS-Publisher 2010 and it's being presented in Firefox, my default browser.  If I can replicate what you're reporting then I may also be able to figure out how to block it from occurring.  The only thing I've come to accept that I have no control over is what happens with Cortana web search results (always shown in MS-Edge and always produced using Bing Search).
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.



Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

Nicole Massey <nyyki@...>
 

Yes, of course. And yes, there are a lot more steps in doing desktop layout with Word than with Publisher, as Word isn't optimized for such things. This is why I drew the parallel with Sibelius, which also has some pretty specific layout requirements and *has* been made accessible enough to turn out stuff sighted folks can process into usable information.
I always preferred Framemaker to Publisher myself back in the days when I could see.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 4:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 02:06 pm, Nicole Massey wrote:


If proper layout can be done in Sibelius it can be done in Publisher

If basic layout is all that's being sought then I'd definitely go for a tool other than Publisher.

Desktop publishing is about a lot more than simple layout, which can be accomplished with many more accessible tools such as MS-Word.

Fitting the tool to both the user and the actual task, for any user and any actual task, is always a good idea. Putting someone in the cockpit of a commercial airliner and telling them to fly it when what you're looking for is a paper airplane tossed across a room makes no sense.
--
Brian

Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

 

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 02:06 pm, Nicole Massey wrote:
If proper layout can be done in Sibelius it can be done in Publisher

If basic layout is all that's being sought then I'd definitely go for a tool other than Publisher.

Desktop publishing is about a lot more than simple layout, which can be accomplished with many more accessible tools such as MS-Word.

Fitting the tool to both the user and the actual task, for any user and any actual task, is always a good idea.   Putting someone in the cockpit of a commercial airliner and telling them to fly it when what you're looking for is a paper airplane tossed across a room makes no sense.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

Nicole Massey <nyyki@...>
 

If proper layout can be done in Sibelius it can be done in Publisher, though from what folks are saying here it'll probably require some scripts to make it work out, since Publisher is one of those Microsoft products that doesn't like us. (/me gives a sideways glance to Project) That said, scripting isn't trivial. And I'm sort of questioning how vital it is to do this in Publisher, as most of what it does can be done in Word, and it turns out some ugly (from a screen reader perspective) PDF documents.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 3:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

Ted,

One could copy and paste text from any other application to Publisher, and I could get JAWS to read me the text in a given box once I got the text box not selected as an object but with myself placed within it.

That being said, and at the risk of causing a war [and not by intention, I am willing to be educated], the entire focus of Publisher revolves around the physical visual layout of content. It's whole reason for being is as a visual design tool. It's not that I don't think that someone who's blind is incapable of writing copy, discussing what may be wanted as far as layout, etc., but the actual laying out of all the elements that Publisher was meant to be laying out is truly a visual task at its core. If someone can explain how this could be done (and I'm not talking about filling in a template) by someone who cannot see the result of what they're actually doing, even if they can imagine precisely what they'd like, I'd love to hear it. This is a case where it seems like the nature of the task itself is primarily visual.

I've done more work with Publisher than I care to recount and, in fact, used it this afternoon to make labels to create a "nearly invisible" correction to the phone number on my business cards, which has changed since they were printed.
--
Brian

Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

 

Randy,

         Then I want the steps to reproduce them.  And this is not because I don't believe you, but because I have not been able to induce what you're describing.
    
          I have never had any search engine "silently changed" to anything with the exception of once during one of the major updates, I think to version 1607, where a bunch of other settings that users can reset got set back to the defaults that Microsoft thought appropriate.   I have expressed my outrage at this practice, or at least not telling people that they need to recheck certain specific settings, repeatedly.

          I just clicked on a link in a Help dialog in MS-Publisher 2010 and it's being presented in Firefox, my default browser.  If I can replicate what you're reporting then I may also be able to figure out how to block it from occurring.  The only thing I've come to accept that I have no control over is what happens with Cortana web search results (always shown in MS-Edge and always produced using Bing Search).
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

 

Ted,

        One could copy and paste text from any other application to Publisher, and I could get JAWS to read me the text in a given box once I got the text box not selected as an object but with myself placed within it.

         That being said, and at the risk of causing a war [and not by intention, I am willing to be educated], the entire focus of Publisher revolves around the physical visual layout of content.  It's whole reason for being is as a visual design tool.  It's not that I don't think that someone who's blind is incapable of writing copy, discussing what may be wanted as far as layout, etc., but the actual laying out of all the elements that Publisher was meant to be laying out is truly a visual task at its core.  If someone can explain how this could be done (and I'm not talking about filling in a template) by someone who cannot see the result of what they're actually doing, even if they can imagine precisely what they'd like, I'd love to hear it.   This is a case where it seems like the nature of the task itself is primarily visual.

          I've done more work with Publisher than I care to recount and, in fact, used it this afternoon to make labels to create a "nearly invisible" correction to the phone number on my business cards, which has changed since they were printed.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Brian, is it possible to do the heavy lifting in Word, then import the result to Publisher?  I seem to recall that from somewhere.

 

Ted

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 1:56 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

 

Shane,

          It would be helpful to know what version of JAWS and MS-Publisher you're trying to use together, as this could make a difference.

          In my 10-second testing with Publisher 2010 and JAWS 18 I would say that it is not accessible using JAWS in any meaningful sense of the word accessible.  When I'm tabbing through objects all I get announced is "Tab" with no subsequent announcement of what object is actually selected.  If I select a text box via mouse JAWS will endlessly repeat the first character typed in that text box until I kill speech.

           None of the above may be true if you're using a later version of Publisher or, less likely, a different version of JAWS but I have no way to test that out.  NVDA and Window-Eyes are slightly different, but no better.  I certainly would not be able to make heads nor tails out of what I was doing in Publisher 2010 using any of the previously mentioned screen readers.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Brian This is not true. Help links in Win 10 will open in Edge Google chrome has reported the default search engine was silently changed to Bing and asked If I wanted to block any future attempts to silently change my search engine. These are just a couple of real world situations and can be reproduced

On 5/12/2017 11:08 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 11:01 am, Randy Barnett wrote:
Unfortunately windows will open certain links in Edge no matter what you have set your default preferences too... MS will also change your default search engine to bing without your permission or notification...

Windows 10 only uses Bing as the default search engine in MS-Edge, and this can be changed, but will revert to Bing for any searches executed via Cortana as opposed to using the Edge app itself, which will use the search engine you've set.

Windows 10 will only open links that are the result of a web search done via Cortana in MS-Edge.  Other links, such as those you have in e-mail messages, on web pages, etc., will open in whatever browser you have selected as your default web browsing app.  I have tested this less than 4 hours ago with the Windows 10 Mail app and links received in messages.  These all open in Firefox, which I have set as my default browser.

I am running Version 1703, Build 15063.296, under Win10 Home, 64-bit.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.



Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

Lauren Snyder
 

I tried on 2016 version of Publisher. Unfortunately, the application remains as it always has been: you can type in in a text box if a sighted person places you there. Otherwise, it is not accessible with Jaws.

Sincerely,

Lauren Snyder, Ph.D.  
Sent from my iPhone

On May 12, 2017, at 1:55 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Shane,

          It would be helpful to know what version of JAWS and MS-Publisher you're trying to use together, as this could make a difference.

          In my 10-second testing with Publisher 2010 and JAWS 18 I would say that it is not accessible using JAWS in any meaningful sense of the word accessible.  When I'm tabbing through objects all I get announced is "Tab" with no subsequent announcement of what object is actually selected.  If I select a text box via mouse JAWS will endlessly repeat the first character typed in that text box until I kill speech.

           None of the above may be true if you're using a later version of Publisher or, less likely, a different version of JAWS but I have no way to test that out.  NVDA and Window-Eyes are slightly different, but no better.  I certainly would not be able to make heads nor tails out of what I was doing in Publisher 2010 using any of the previously mentioned screen readers.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

 

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 11:01 am, Randy Barnett wrote:
Unfortunately windows will open certain links in Edge no matter what you have set your default preferences too... MS will also change your default search engine to bing without your permission or notification...

Windows 10 only uses Bing as the default search engine in MS-Edge, and this can be changed, but will revert to Bing for any searches executed via Cortana as opposed to using the Edge app itself, which will use the search engine you've set.

Windows 10 will only open links that are the result of a web search done via Cortana in MS-Edge.  Other links, such as those you have in e-mail messages, on web pages, etc., will open in whatever browser you have selected as your default web browsing app.  I have tested this less than 4 hours ago with the Windows 10 Mail app and links received in messages.  These all open in Firefox, which I have set as my default browser.

I am running Version 1703, Build 15063.296, under Win10 Home, 64-bit.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Unfortunately windows will open certain links in Edge no matter what you have set your default preferences too... MS will also change your default search engine to bing without your permission or notification...

On 5/12/2017 6:29 AM, Lauren Snyder wrote:

 

 

Hi:

 

How do I make sure whether I am opening a .pdf, a file attachmnet in mail, that I can choose the program I want the application open in. I don’t know what happened, but when I tried to open an attachment in Outlook, it went automtically to MS Edge. Also, when I clicked on a link, MS edge started instead of my preferred IE.

 

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Lauren Snyder

princessesrule@...

 



Re: Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

 

Shane,

          It would be helpful to know what version of JAWS and MS-Publisher you're trying to use together, as this could make a difference.

          In my 10-second testing with Publisher 2010 and JAWS 18 I would say that it is not accessible using JAWS in any meaningful sense of the word accessible.  When I'm tabbing through objects all I get announced is "Tab" with no subsequent announcement of what object is actually selected.  If I select a text box via mouse JAWS will endlessly repeat the first character typed in that text box until I kill speech.

           None of the above may be true if you're using a later version of Publisher or, less likely, a different version of JAWS but I have no way to test that out.  NVDA and Window-Eyes are slightly different, but no better.  I certainly would not be able to make heads nor tails out of what I was doing in Publisher 2010 using any of the previously mentioned screen readers.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Jaws and Microsoft Publisher

Shane clark
 

Hi guys,

I wrote in a few weeks ago, but I don't think I got a clear answer. So I wanted to ask again, does anyone know if Jaws is accessible with Microsoft Publisher? Upon doing a Google research, from what I read so far it's not. But just wanted to ask on the list to be Shore. Thanks, Shane.

--

Thanks, Shane.


Re: Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

 

Lauren,

          To my knowledge you can definitely still set your default apps by file type under Windows 10.  PDF files are not among "the short list" that's shown on the Default Apps settings page directly.  If you hit WinKey and search default apps one of the items that will be returned in the search is the "Choose default apps by file type" dialog.  If you open it and search on PDF you can then select the application you prefer to have used to open PDF files.

           Unless something's changed recently, and it could have, the app you've chosen in the main Default Apps settings for Web Browser is what should be used to open any link except for those that come back from a Cortana Search, which always get opened in MS-Edge.  I have not heard anything along the lines that Microsoft has now forced the Mail App to use MS-Edge regardless of what you've chosen as your default web browser app, so I'd recheck that setting.
--
Brian

        Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.


Getting rid of MS Edge as the default open app

Lauren Snyder
 

 

 

Hi:

 

How do I make sure whether I am opening a .pdf, a file attachmnet in mail, that I can choose the program I want the application open in. I don’t know what happened, but when I tried to open an attachment in Outlook, it went automtically to MS Edge. Also, when I clicked on a link, MS edge started instead of my preferred IE.

 

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Lauren Snyder

princessesrule@...

 


Re: interesting blog about accessibility.

Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
 

Hi,

I do need to somewhat withdraw what I said because I tried the latest Dropbox installer today and apparently Dropbox has indeed been working on accessibility and made some good progress.
First of all, the actual install is pretty much happening without any prompts or interactions. After the installation is complete it goes to setup and this is where in the past (I would say as late as last November for sure) the screens were inaccessible, Jaws would read nothing.
Today this was different, I was able to activate the advanced setup button where, if you wish, you can change the default location of your Dropbox folder and then I was able to enter my email, password and 6-digit code from my authenticator app without any issues. Only after that a few more screens came up which Jaws could not read, they had a Next button each and with convenient OCR I found out they simply gave some hints and tips about what you could all do with Dropbox. At the final screen the "Next" button became a "Finish" button and then it was done.

Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 4:02 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: interesting blog about accessibility.

On 5/10/2017 11:09 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
Very interesting coming from the company which has an installer that is not accessible and where, at best and if you really know what you are doing, you can get it done using Jaws convenient OCR or I guess an unattended installer such as from Ninite.
Also from the company which a couple of months ago release an iOS app update which completely broke the app for Voiceover users, as soon as you opened the app and tapped on files to look at a file the app crashed and booted you out.
Yes, they did fix it somewhat quickly, but it's still funny though because of the installation issue on a PC.

Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Randy Barnett
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 1:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: interesting blog about accessibility.

It would be awesome if all companies thought this way:
https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2017/04/creating-a-culture-of-accessibi
lity/





I didnt havbe a issue with the installer.... I thhink v4 installer was not accessib lwe but I downloaded a older one that worked...


Jaws and MSAA?

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Does anyone know of this issue and if this will fix them?
http://www.dlee.org/mrw/


Re: Firefox navigation

Tim Ford
 

I would also use the insert plus F5 command.  That gives you a vertical JAWS list box that contains any edit box, form field, check box, or button.  I find that, especially if I am having trouble finding an edit box that I think should be there, the Insert f5 list is very handy.  Just typing the letter e also works, but that way you are going from edit box to edit box.

 

If you want just one of these, say just edit boxes or just form fields in a list, press insert plus F3, that brings up a JAWS list of each of the various item types, e.g. buttons only, and you just hit enter on what you want.  That Insert plus F3 list is handy because it gives you a nice reminder list of everything that you can use JAWS to go directly to. 

 

Tim Ford

 

 

From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 4:17 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Firefox navigation

 

Hi, Lauren. Usually one can find edit fields in Firefox with the letter E key. The difference is that, once the edit field has been found, you might need to press the SPACE BAR to open the form field.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 3:55 PM

Subject: Firefox navigation

 

 

 

Hi:

 

How do I find edit fields where I can input text in Firefox? I usually use IE, but the web site I want seems to like Firefox better. I am using Windows 10 and Jaws 18.

 

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Lauren Snyder

princessesrule@...

 



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