Date   

Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 05:09 pm, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
enter the rightmost group in a ribbon

 Oops, that should be leftmost.  If you invoke a ribbon and hit tab once, you always enter at the left side and work your way rightward.

As Adrian has confirmed, once you've done a few traversals of the different ribbons you tend to pick up the structure and what's grouped together pretty quickly.  You also start compiling your personal "greatest hits" list of keyboard shortcuts for the things you use frequently, and even often enough that you don't want to figure them out each time you need to do them again.

The various ribbons make a lot more sense when you can traverse each in a structured way, and boy did I ever learn that, as a general rule, use of the arrow keys does anything but that!!  You still have to use them occasionally, though.  When you land in the Font or Font size, both of these are dropdown boxes and you do, of course open and traverse those with the down arrow (and up arrow, to work back up) keys.  For things like the text color chooser you can use all four arrow keys once you're in the color grid.

Brian


Re: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops

Robin Frost
 

Hi,
this was not the case for my HP Desktop recently purchased in October. It was however the case with my new Toshiba laptop purchased at the same time.
It should also be noted however that not all models and makes require that this be turned off in bios settings.
Some manufacturers such as Toshiba and Dell have a means to do this in control panel keyboard settings once the system is up and running.
Still it’s good to try I emphasize try and find out how a particular model handles this when making purchasing decisions as not all sales people or even tech support people are good about disseminating such information.
Robin
 
 

Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops
 

For all I know the following may apply to some desktops and/or all-in-ones, too, but I've not yet encountered it in these environments.

Since the beginning of the laptop, convention had been that the function keys across the very top of the keyboard required the Fn key that's nested along the very bottom of the keyboard to be held before hitting a given function key to make it perform whatever function the manufacturer defines for that key.  Most people are familiar with function keys to do things like:  volume up, volume down, mute, wireless on/off, brightness up, brightness down, etc.

There is a new feature that HP, at least, calls "Action Keys Mode" which turns this convention on its head.  When activated, this makes a simple press of a given function key trigger its function rather than being passed along to whatever application as a key press.  This can have some "interesting" effects for screen reader users.  This function is currently enabled by default on my laptop and the F6 key so happens to be the Mute on/off toggle key.  When using NVDA, if I press F6 it simply toggles the mute state.  In order to make it behave as F6 normally would I must hit Fn+F6.  This does not apply if the SHIFT is pressed along with F6 in order to reverse the direction.  That works perfectly well.  I can only imagine the chaos this could unleash if you start using the various commands that employ the function keys on a system with Action Keys Mode activated.

Action Keys Mode can be disabled, but it is controlled via UEFI/BIOS.  On my machine one disables it by activating the UEFI menu by doing a repeated ESC key press during boot and selecting F10 choice.  Once the old-fashioned BIOS-like screen pops up, you have to transition to the System Configuration pane and arrow to the Action Keys Mode entry and disable it.  Since this is done well before the operating system is even involved, I don't know of a single screen reader that could be active to accomplish the task.

Since this mode is controlled by the hardware ahead of any intervention by anything else, you must disable it if you wish your function keys to operate "the way they always have."

Brian


Re: working with application mode

Adrian Spratt
 

I should have remembered one more way in which applications mode comes up on a website I often visit. In that case, it appears to be a link, but JAWS announces something to the effect of "Applications mode." Here, I'm being indirectly told to trigger the link by pressing the spacebar, not the enter key.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:26 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: working with application mode

Bob,

I find the way to work with applications mode is not to. When JAWS verbalizes "applications mode," I press the PC cursor key twice to get out of it. After that, navigation and reading work fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Logue [mailto:bobcat11@shaw.ca]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 1:01 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: working with application mode

Can I get some pointers to documentation for working with application
mode and Jaws on web pages?
A search for application mode in the Jaws manual didn't find anything
helpful.

I'm not having much luck using application mode where I find it more
often these days. Standard keyboard navigation just does not
work.Perhaps there are tricks I don't know about.

Bob


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

Adrian Spratt
 

Bob,

 

I like “movegating.” I agree, ribbons are nothing like file menus. However, that doesn’t make them impossible.

 

For me, the first stage in coming to terms with them is that familiar Word shortcuts still apply. No need to find “open” in the ribbons if you already know that control-o does the job in a single keystroke.

 

The second stage for me was to focus on a command for which I didn’t know any shortcut. For example, how to insert page numbers in a Word document? The answer to such a question is readily available via Google, with such search terms as

Word (version number), how do I start page numbers?

The first search result may or may not give you an accessible method, but I’ve always found one quickly. I also have CathyAnne Murtha’s text book, where she lists many of these methods. Typically, the way to get to a command is to press a certain letter with the alt key, then one or two letters in quick sequence right after.

 

I make a list of the methods I acquire. It isn’t by keystroke, but by feature, control or command.

 

By the time you’ve accumulated shortcuts and other ways to get at the features you use the most, you’ll have done a little ribbon movegating as a byproduct. You’ll come to notice certain patterns.

 

For example, if you press alt-f in Word, then arrow down, you’ll encounter one by one several broad categories. If you find a general category that may cover a feature that interests you, use tab and control-tab to navigate that particular ribbon to get a sense of the connections that Microsoft makes.

 

It’s good to find these broad categories to minimize endless tabbing and control-tabbing, which some of these ribbons can entail.

 

As with so much in life, following these three stages helps you pick up a sense of the ribbons by osmosis. There’s no point in figuring out and remembering all the ribbons, the way I did with the file menus. But in less time than you’d expect, you will accumulate a list of the features you rely on for each Office application you use.

 

From: Robert Logue [mailto:bobcat11@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 7:26 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

 

Actually there is a serious difference to me with ribbons.  That is they are not liniar navigation.  Movegating I mean navigating but I think I invented a new word combining navigating with moving.through them changes depending on where you are and what  direction you go.  So, exploring them is more difficult for me. 

However, if one can customize keyboard shortcuts, than I suppose I'd be able to use them more effectively.
Are ribbons in Office customizable?  I only know Wordpad ribbons which frustrate the heck out of me.

Bob

On 1/25/2016 6:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 04:54 pm, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> wrote:

there is no escaping the ribbons. Eventually, you learn Alt what to hit and just go there. The ribbons are sort of, in my mind, a sideways menu.

 Precisely, precisely, and precisely.

I miss the menus, but that's because I was "raised on" the menus.  There's nothing that's more intuitive about the menu system than the ribbon system, it's just that those of us who were used to the former were quite jolted by the latter.  The relocation of stuff, particularly since I don't use keyboard shortcuts as my primary access method, was very jarring.  The majority of "the common controls" use the same keyboard shortcuts that they have since the inception of MS-Office.

Brian

 


Re: Braille Viewer Option?

Nermin
 

Hi tom,
 
the Braille viewer is just a tool that lets a sighted individual see what a Braille display would show to the blind. It’s not really helpful in determining screen positions. It’s just a visualiser so that sighted people know what you feel on your display, so to speak.
 
Regards,
Nermin
 

From: Tom Behler
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 2:31 AM
Subject: Braille Viewer Option?
 

Hello, everyone.

 

Yesterday, the Braille Viewer option was mentioned as a possible tool in the latest versions of Jaws for helping sighted individuals follow Jaws on the computer screen.

 

Out of curiosity, I asked if someone could give us further details on how this option works, and exactly what it does.

 

I’ve heard nothing so far, but am still very curious about this possibility.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...>
 

Thanks, Brian. That ribbon information is a saver.

Bye for now,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 8:10 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 04:25 pm, Robert Logue <bobcat11@shaw.ca> wrote:


Actually there is a serious difference to me with ribbons. That is they are not liniar navigation.

Robert,

I've had an extended private back an forth on the Ribbons with another regular here off-forum. He taught me a new things and, I hope, vice versa.

The first thing he made me aware of is that the custom for going through menus was almost strictly using arrow keys. That's definitely the direct route to madness with the ribbons. TAB and SHIFT+TAB are the ways to move sequentially through (and even between, if you keep on going) the various ribbon groups, which can be thought of as submenus if you think of the ribbon as a whole as a menu. You can move directly from one group to the next one/previous one, using CTRL+Right Arrow/Left Arrow. Eventually this can move you out of the Ribbon to a couple of other controls that are in "the general area" but are not in the ribbon itself. I'll use WordPad and the Home Ribbon as an example. I always teach my clients to invoke a ribbon with whatever ALT+letter combination is appropriate, ALT+H in this example, then to use a single TAB to enter the rightmost group in a ribbon, and that's virtually always the Clipboard group. If you keep hitting TAB you will go through each control in the Clipboard group then, once you're on the last one, the next tab takes you to the Font group, and "lather, rinse, repeat" with using TAB or SHIFT+TAB if you want to go forward/backward one control in a given group. When you hit the last control in a group, the next TAB will always take you to the first control in the next group over, so in WordPad that would be Clipboard, Font, Paragraph, Insert, and Editing. Of course, once one is familiar with what's in each of the groups you certainly don't want to TAB yourself to death, so, you can use the CTRL+Right Arrow/Left Arrow to jump between them then TAB to the specific control you want. Finally, for controls you find are part of your "greatest hits" collection it's worth learning the keyboard shortcut that gets you directly to it. For example, the Font selection dropdown can be reached directly, and ready for you to change it, using ALT+H+F1 in WordPad. Since other programs, e.g., MS-Word, have a lot more options in the Font Group than WordPad does the keyboard shortcuts will vary a bit. Getting directly to font selection in all the MS-Office programs is ALT+H+FF and, so far, all of the controls that "span programs" in Office also share the same keyboard shortcut in each of them.

The various ribbons in MS-Office are customizable, wildly so in fact. If you bring up the File tab, Options Option, which I suggest you do with ALT+F,T, "Customize Ribbon" is one of the options. Getting into the mechanics of customizing the ribbon itself is outside the scope of this brief conversation. Since the Ribbon content is dependent on the program in question, though many similarities exist between the various programs, you have to customize the ribbon(s) for each program within that program. But the previously mentioned key sequence will bring up the Options dialog in any of the Office suite programs. I generally discourage customizing the ribbons, or at least extensively so, because if you have to use another machine with the "usual Office default layout" you often end up quickly lost and/or frustrated because you're not accustomed to the typical layout. But only you know whether that's a legitimate concern in your own circumstances.

Try what I mentioned in the first paragraph for navigating in any ribbon and I suspect you'll find it a lot less hellish than you currently do.

Brian


Braille Viewer Option?

Tom Behler
 

Hello, everyone.

 

Yesterday, the Braille Viewer option was mentioned as a possible tool in the latest versions of Jaws for helping sighted individuals follow Jaws on the computer screen.

 

Out of curiosity, I asked if someone could give us further details on how this option works, and exactly what it does.

 

I’ve heard nothing so far, but am still very curious about this possibility.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 04:25 pm, Robert Logue <bobcat11@...> wrote:
Actually there is a serious difference to me with ribbons.  That is they are not liniar navigation. 

 Robert,

           I've had an extended private back an forth on the Ribbons with another regular here off-forum.  He taught me a new things and, I hope, vice versa.

           The first thing he made me aware of is that the custom for going through menus was almost strictly using arrow keys.  That's definitely the direct route to madness with the ribbons.  TAB and SHIFT+TAB are the ways to move sequentially through (and even between, if you keep on going) the various ribbon groups, which can be thought of as submenus if you think of the ribbon as a whole as a menu.  You can move directly from one group to the next one/previous one, using CTRL+Right Arrow/Left Arrow.  Eventually this can move you out of the Ribbon to a couple of other controls that are in "the general area" but are not in the ribbon itself.  I'll use WordPad and the Home Ribbon as an example.  I always teach my clients to invoke a ribbon with whatever ALT+letter combination is appropriate, ALT+H in this example, then to use a single TAB to enter the rightmost group in a ribbon, and that's virtually always the Clipboard group.  If you keep hitting TAB you will go through each control in the Clipboard group then, once you're on the last one, the next tab takes you to the Font group, and "lather, rinse, repeat" with using TAB or SHIFT+TAB if you want to go forward/backward one control in a given group.  When you hit the last control in a group, the next TAB will always take you to the first control in the next group over, so in WordPad that would be Clipboard, Font, Paragraph, Insert, and Editing.  Of course, once one is familiar with what's in each of the groups you certainly don't want to TAB yourself to death, so, you can use the CTRL+Right Arrow/Left Arrow to jump between them then TAB to the specific control you want.  Finally, for controls you find are part of your "greatest hits" collection it's worth learning the keyboard shortcut that gets you directly to it.  For example, the Font selection dropdown can be reached directly, and ready for you to change it, using ALT+H+F1 in WordPad.  Since other programs, e.g., MS-Word, have a lot more options in the Font Group than WordPad does the keyboard shortcuts will vary a bit.  Getting directly to font selection in all the MS-Office programs is ALT+H+FF and, so far, all of the controls that "span programs" in Office also share the same keyboard shortcut in each of them.

           The various ribbons in MS-Office are customizable, wildly so in fact.  If you bring up the File tab, Options Option, which I suggest you do with ALT+F,T, "Customize Ribbon" is one of the options.  Getting into the mechanics of customizing the ribbon itself is outside the scope of this brief conversation.  Since the Ribbon content is dependent on the program in question, though many similarities exist between the various programs, you have to customize the ribbon(s) for each program within that program.  But the previously mentioned key sequence will bring up the Options dialog in any of the Office suite programs.  I generally discourage customizing the ribbons, or at least extensively so, because if you have to use another machine with the "usual Office default layout" you often end up quickly lost and/or frustrated because you're not accustomed to the typical layout.  But only you know whether that's a legitimate concern in your own circumstances.

           Try what I mentioned in the first paragraph for navigating in any ribbon and I suspect you'll find it a lot less hellish than you currently do.  

Brian


sighted following JAWS reading

HH. Smith Jr.
 

Hello Folks,

 

I’ve somewhat tested the tether jaws cursor to virtual cursor. Insert, control, numpad minus, and it seems to allow a sighted person to follow jaws reading and the screen scrolls.

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

HH. Smith Jr.
 

Hi Robert,

 

In an earlier post, I wrote that in the JAWS start-up wizard, insert+j then alt H, z about three windows in click the checkbox virtual ribbon menus. This will give you horizontal menus. It is on the same dialog box in the start-up wizard as smart navigation 4tabs down.

If the virtual ribbon menus checkbox is check then menus are vertical.

From: Robert Logue [mailto:bobcat11@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 8:26 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

 

Actually there is a serious difference to me with ribbons.  That is they are not liniar navigation.  Movegating I mean navigating but I think I invented a new word combining navigating with moving.through them changes depending on where you are and what  direction you go.  So, exploring them is more difficult for me. 

However, if one can customize keyboard shortcuts, than I suppose I'd be able to use them more effectively.
Are ribbons in Office customizable?  I only know Wordpad ribbons which frustrate the heck out of me.

Bob

On 1/25/2016 6:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 04:54 pm, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> wrote:

there is no escaping the ribbons. Eventually, you learn Alt what to hit and just go there. The ribbons are sort of, in my mind, a sideways menu.

 Precisely, precisely, and precisely.

I miss the menus, but that's because I was "raised on" the menus.  There's nothing that's more intuitive about the menu system than the ribbon system, it's just that those of us who were used to the former were quite jolted by the latter.  The relocation of stuff, particularly since I don't use keyboard shortcuts as my primary access method, was very jarring.  The majority of "the common controls" use the same keyboard shortcuts that they have since the inception of MS-Office.

Brian

 

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com


Re: simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

judith bron
 

Or like telling the same blind computer user to pick up a mouse and will it to do what you think.  Alt tabbing is as normal as breathing.  JB

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 6:28 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 03:24 pm, ptusing <ptusing@...> wrote:

simply do not ever alt tab.

 Yeah, right.  This is akin to telling a computer user who can't see the system tray to "simply do not ever breathe."

Oy!

Brian


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

Robert Logue
 

Actually there is a serious difference to me with ribbons.  That is they are not liniar navigation.  Movegating I mean navigating but I think I invented a new word combining navigating with moving.through them changes depending on where you are and what  direction you go.  So, exploring them is more difficult for me. 

However, if one can customize keyboard shortcuts, than I suppose I'd be able to use them more effectively.
Are ribbons in Office customizable?  I only know Wordpad ribbons which frustrate the heck out of me.

Bob


On 1/25/2016 6:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 04:54 pm, Carolyn Arnold <4carolyna@...> wrote:
there is no escaping the ribbons. Eventually, you learn Alt what to hit and just go there. The ribbons are sort of, in my mind, a sideways menu.

 Precisely, precisely, and precisely.

I miss the menus, but that's because I was "raised on" the menus.  There's nothing that's more intuitive about the menu system than the ribbon system, it's just that those of us who were used to the former were quite jolted by the latter.  The relocation of stuff, particularly since I don't use keyboard shortcuts as my primary access method, was very jarring.  The majority of "the common controls" use the same keyboard shortcuts that they have since the inception of MS-Office.

Brian



Re: Is there a comprehensive/exhaustive list of JAWS keyboard shortcuts?

Gudrun Brunot
 

Thanks, Mike. I was able to save that.

Gudrun


Gudrun

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike B. [mailto:mb69mach1@charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 1:54 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a comprehensive/exhaustive list of JAWS keyboard shortcuts?

Hi All,

Below is a Dropbox download link for Jaws Desktop, Laptop, & Windows keystrokes:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2471715/JAWS%20Desktop%20%26%20Laptop%20%26%20Windows%20Keystrokes.zip


Take care.
Mike
Global warming? Most likely caused from hot air generated by politicians!
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Coe <mailto:charlesmar@comcast.net>
To: jfw@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Is there a comprehensive/exhaustive list of JAWS keyboard shortcuts?


Hi Mike,

Could you include it in the body of your message?





From: Mike B. [mailto:mb69mach1@charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 11:37 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Is there a comprehensive/exhaustive list of JAWS keyboard shortcuts?



Well, I guess the list doesn't allow attachments anymore.

Take care.
Mike
Sent from my iBarstool. Go Dodgers!

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike B. <mailto:mb69mach1@charter.net>

To: jfw@groups.io

Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 11:17 AM

Subject: Re: Is there a comprehensive/exhaustive list of JAWS keyboard shortcuts?



Hi Brian,



Take a look at the attached file. I put together these keystrokes not too long ago, but I don't recall from what version of Jaws I referenced for them.

Take care.
Mike
Sent from my iBarstool. Go Dodgers!

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>

To: jfw@groups.io

Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 7:47 AM

Subject: Re: Is there a comprehensive/exhaustive list of JAWS keyboard shortcuts?



Nermin,

Thanks, I'll give this a look. But what I was hoping for is an actual reference document that one could either print or carry around in electronic format of some sort. It's handy to have this sort of thing when "plotting strategy" for some things that seldom need to happen.

That layout is exactly parallel to the keystrokes documents, but perhaps the "live content" is more extensive. That could be helpful in the moment, but not so much when I'm not in front of a computer running JAWS.

Brian


Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

Robert Logue
 

Hi Les. Can you use all the regular Office features without an internet connection? It has been said that More of Office 2016 is in the clouds. I wonder if there is a document that compares features and functions running locally wihtout Internet to cloud functions.

Brad. I'll give Open Office another try.

Brian. The item on e-bay is not available now. I've heard stories about resellers product keys that expire and are not recognized by Microsoft after a while. Glad you got the real deal.

Bob

On 1/26/2016 3:49 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
I have a local copy of Office 2016. I will be unsub scribing from Office 365 and getting a partial refund of my annual subscription. Personally, I don't usually care for subscription services for software as you just keep on paying.

Les

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 6:40 PM
To:jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: buying Microsoft Office first time

Bob,

The first version of MS-Office with the Ribbon is Office 2007, which gives you an idea of how long ago the ribbon became the default. Even if you were able to secure a copy Office 2003 I would strongly suggest you don't. Official support for Office 2003 ended in 2014, and no one, including Freedom Scientific, is doing their ongoing development on top of non-supported versions of Office. I'd suggest Office 2010, which has extended support through 2020, or Office 2013, which has extended support through 2023.

I prefer a version of Office that's fully installed locally on the machine, and I think that Office 2013 was the last version that worked entirely locally. Office 365 has a lot of web-based features and I think Office 2016 does, too, though I can't speak to that in detail.

You may want to consider either LibreOffice<https://www.libreoffice.org/> or OpenOffice<http://openoffice.org> , as opposed to Microsoft Office, if cost is a factor and/or you just want to get a sense of what a full office suite is like. Freedom Scientific should be able to tell you whether there is any JAWS support for either LibreOffice or OpenOffice, but those are the two biggest competitors to Microsoft Office and both are open-source projects that have been around for quite a while and that have large user bases. Both of these suites can open files generated by MS-Office.

Brian





CTR+F9 not working on surface pro 3

Jodie Hoger
 

Hi List,
I have done something that has effected the functionality of my surface pro 3. An immediate example is that I can no longer go to the top of the body of an email using CTR+F9.
Can anyone help?
Thanks,
Jo

Sent from my iPhone


Re: simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 03:24 pm, ptusing <ptusing@...> wrote:
simply do not ever alt tab.

 Yeah, right.  This is akin to telling a computer user who can't see the system tray to "simply do not ever breathe."

Oy!

Brian


Re: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops

 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 03:14 pm, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
It’s much easier to get them to do it before the sale is made!

 Absolutely!!

I have to say that I'd not encountered a computer with this feature until I purchased my latest laptop last fall.  I have no doubt it's been around for at least a couple of years now, since there seems to be a link between the debut of Win8 and UEFI and this feature.

What's bad, though, is that this is not a feature or setting that tends to "get PR" as far as being listed on the box or sometimes in any of the documentation.  It's well-nigh impossible to be aware of it until you've already been caught out by it.  This is even truer if you can't test something with JAWS or another screen reader using some of the "naked" function key commands prior to owning the thing.

Brian


simply do not alt tab;suggested solution for using Adobe

Tusing <ptusing@...>
 

HI, all,
I contacted people who told me if they alt tabbed in adocument using Adobe with JAWS 16-7, that everything freezes.
So I contacted F S.
I was told that Adobe works perfectly; simply do not ever alt tab.
I realize what I was hearing was an off-the-cuff minority opinion.
This issue has been a known issue since last summer and involves 2 of the latest versions of JAWS.
I like the product and most of the people at F S.


Re: Action Keys Mode - A Warning to Those Buying Certain New Laptops

Russell Solowoniuk
 

When I purchased my Lenovo Yoga Pro 2 laptop a little over a year ago from Future Shop, I had the tech guys there go into the bios and set the function keys to behave the way I needed for Jaws use. I had a bit of a fight to get them to do this, but insisted they do it or I would purchase the laptop somewhere where they would do it for me. It took the tech guy all of 3 minutes to do this. Don’t forget, when you are spending good money, that you have a right to have your laptop set up in a way that will work for you. It’s much easier to get them to do it before the sale is made! :).

Thanks,

Russell

On Jan 31, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

For all I know the following may apply to some desktops and/or all-in-ones, too, but I've not yet encountered it in these environments.

Since the beginning of the laptop, convention had been that the function keys across the very top of the keyboard required the Fn key that's nested along the very bottom of the keyboard to be held before hitting a given function key to make it perform whatever function the manufacturer defines for that key.  Most people are familiar with function keys to do things like:  volume up, volume down, mute, wireless on/off, brightness up, brightness down, etc.

There is a new feature that HP, at least, calls "Action Keys Mode" which turns this convention on its head.  When activated, this makes a simple press of a given function key trigger its function rather than being passed along to whatever application as a key press.  This can have some "interesting" effects for screen reader users.  This function is currently enabled by default on my laptop and the F6 key so happens to be the Mute on/off toggle key.  When using NVDA, if I press F6 it simply toggles the mute state.  In order to make it behave as F6 normally would I must hit Fn+F6.  This does not apply if the SHIFT is pressed along with F6 in order to reverse the direction.  That works perfectly well.  I can only imagine the chaos this could unleash if you start using the various commands that employ the function keys on a system with Action Keys Mode activated.

Action Keys Mode can be disabled, but it is controlled via UEFI/BIOS.  On my machine one disables it by activating the UEFI menu by doing a repeated ESC key press during boot and selecting F10 choice.  Once the old-fashioned BIOS-like screen pops up, you have to transition to the System Configuration pane and arrow to the Action Keys Mode entry and disable it.  Since this is done well before the operating system is even involved, I don't know of a single screen reader that could be active to accomplish the task.

Since this mode is controlled by the hardware ahead of any intervention by anything else, you must disable it if you wish your function keys to operate "the way they always have."

Brian



Re: Jaws 17 issues with edit fields in Internet Explorer 11

Russell Solowoniuk
 

Hi,

I haven’t written to FS yet, mainly because I don’t have much faith in FS tech support these days. I thought I’d ask here first, and if no one gave a solution, FS tech support will be my next step. Looks like it’s come to that! Wish me luck! LOL.

Russell

On Jan 31, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Walt Smith <ka3lists@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

Have all of you who are having this problem actually reported it to FS as an
issue in JAWS 17? Also, this is why I always keep at least one older version
of JAWS on my computer any time I install a newer one: this way, I can exit
the latest version and bring up the older one if I encounter a problem that
wasn't present in the earlier version.

-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk [mailto:rsolowoniuk@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 9:21 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Jaws 17 issues with edit fields in Internet Explorer 11

Yes, I've had many issues with Facebook as well. I'm surprised at all the
problems I'm having with edit fields elsewhere though! It seems like FS
continues to add new features that no one really wants, when they should be
concentrating on making daily tasks, like typing and editing text in web
browser edit fields work as they ought to. I don't know about anyone else on
this list, but, after a couple of days playing around with the "smart
navigation" feature, I went into settings centre and turned it off. I find
it quite a nuisance. Others may like it, and that's fine, but I'd sooner FS
make edit fields workable again.

Thanks for your feedback Carolyn.

Russell