Date   

Re: Forums Question & possible change request

Adrian Spratt
 

As Nicole warns, opening attachments is a recognized risk. I’m sorry that anyone on this list would encourage others to feel comfortable doing so.

 

As for the list owner’s policy on attachments, he’ll let us know if he’s interested in changing it. If he doesn’t, that itself is an indication. If the policy does change, I, for one, won’t be opening any attachments that come via the list.

 

In line with your mention of trusting the source, Nicole’s DropBox method is the answer. There are some list members I trust to take care that their files are safe, and I wouldn’t hesitate to download files from their DropBox folders.

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:06 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Forums Question & possible change request

 

Nicole,

         Chacun à son goût.   I haven't worried about e-mail attachments for a long time now.  There's virtually no antivirus that doesn't scan them, and often on upload as well as later on download.

          As I've said on a number of other technology forums I participate on, most infections are the result of poor "browsing and link-clicking hygiene."  The best line of defense is looking at who posted what link(s) and/or attachment(s) and deciding if you think you can trust that source.

          I had a private disagreement with a poster on this forum about the fact that I post links using in-line click-through text in a sentence rather than posting the actual links in their naked http format.  This was based upon the perception that click-through text allows spoofing but naked links do not.  I then sent said poster to another technology forum where I brought this up so that they could see an example of a "naked link" that had been spoofed to take you somewhere else (safe, in this case, but to prove the point).

          The advantages for the historical record and ease of use far outweigh the risks, in my opinion.

Brian


Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

 

Nicole,

           And under WinXP that's no surprise.  The Windows keyboard shortcuts have been expanding with each and every Windows release.  I have a Windows XP machine, but it's on loan to a friend who needs to use an ancient program that runs under XP.  When you say you tried both, do you mean both that use N in them or did you also try ALT+F,W,F.  The latter should open the file menu,select the New sub-menu, and select Folder from the New submenu and create it.

           From Windows 7 forward Ctrl+Shift+N will create a new folder, named New Folder, and be waiting for you to type the actual name you want if you are in Windows Explorer or the Save or Save As dialog boxes.

Brian 


Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

david
 

hello;
I believe the shortcut ctrl+shift+n started in windows 7.

the keystroke doesn't work in vista, so I assume it will not work in XP.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicole Massey
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:29 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

Just tried both in XP, and neither one worked at all.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Bullis [mailto:matthewbullisaz@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:21 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up
to Win7

Control Shift N has always worked for creating a new folder. The
keystroke Control N opens the same explorer window but a second one.
You could also use the applications key, or the context menu key,
whichever term you want to call it.
Matthew

On 1/11/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
That changed with Windows 8 and carries over to Windows 10.
ALT+F,W,F doesn't work in those contexts anymore, either.

File Explorer changed with the advent of Windows 8, I think, it could
be with 8.1, such that the old file menu is not there and CTRL+N
doesn't create a new folder, but instead creates a new, second File
Explorer window.

CTRL+Shift+N replaces CTRL+N in File Explorer for creating a new
CTRL+Shift+folder via
a keyboard shortcut.

Brian


Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

judith bron
 

I believe with XP to create a folder I selected the "my documents" folder, tabbed to new and pressed enter. I then arrowed down to new folder.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicole Massey [mailto:nyyki@gypsyheir.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 2:30 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

Just tried both in XP, and neither one worked at all.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Bullis [mailto:matthewbullisaz@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:21 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows
up to Win7

Control Shift N has always worked for creating a new folder. The
keystroke Control N opens the same explorer window but a second one.
You could also use the applications key, or the context menu key,
whichever term you want to call it.
Matthew

On 1/11/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
That changed with Windows 8 and carries over to Windows 10.
ALT+F,W,F doesn't work in those contexts anymore, either.

File Explorer changed with the advent of Windows 8, I think, it
could be with 8.1, such that the old file menu is not there and
CTRL+N doesn't create a new folder, but instead creates a new,
second File
Explorer window.

CTRL+Shift+N replaces CTRL+N in File Explorer for creating a new
CTRL+Shift+folder via
a keyboard shortcut.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Maria Campbell
 

I neglected to say that the Kurzweil OCR program uses the numpad a lot, so I need to use one on my laptop.

On 1/11/2016 1:28 PM, Maria Campbell wrote:
I make very little use of the numpad, but won't buy a laptop without one.


On 1/11/2016 10:55 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Londa,

Off forum, were I ever to have a client with a device that
comes with a keyboard without a number pad I'd be using the laptop
keystrokes with them out of necessity. I just tend to teach to match
that individual's hardware. I make them aware that there are dedicated
laptop keystrokes in case they ever find themselves doing a switch to
that sort of laptop, but I don't teach those because I can't see the
point at the time that they don't have to use them (and we've got the
desktop ones for them to master).

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

Nicole Massey <nyyki@...>
 

Just tried both in XP, and neither one worked at all.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Bullis [mailto:matthewbullisaz@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 1:21 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up
to Win7

Control Shift N has always worked for creating a new folder. The
keystroke Control N opens the same explorer window but a second one.
You could also use the applications key, or the context menu key,
whichever term you want to call it.
Matthew

On 1/11/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
That changed with Windows 8 and carries over to Windows 10.
ALT+F,W,F doesn't work in those contexts anymore, either.

File Explorer changed with the advent of Windows 8, I think, it could
be with 8.1, such that the old file menu is not there and CTRL+N
doesn't create a new folder, but instead creates a new, second File
Explorer window.

CTRL+Shift+N replaces CTRL+N in File Explorer for creating a new
CTRL+Shift+folder via
a keyboard shortcut.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Maria Campbell
 

I make very little use of the numpad, but won't buy a laptop without one.

On 1/11/2016 10:55 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Londa,

Off forum, were I ever to have a client with a device that
comes with a keyboard without a number pad I'd be using the laptop
keystrokes with them out of necessity. I just tend to teach to match
that individual's hardware. I make them aware that there are dedicated
laptop keystrokes in case they ever find themselves doing a switch to
that sort of laptop, but I don't teach those because I can't see the
point at the time that they don't have to use them (and we've got the
desktop ones for them to master).

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Re: For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

Matthew Bullis
 

Control Shift N has always worked for creating a new folder. The
keystroke Control N opens the same explorer window but a second one.
You could also use the applications key, or the context menu key,
whichever term you want to call it.
Matthew

On 1/11/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
That changed with Windows 8 and carries over to Windows 10.   ALT+F,W,F
doesn't work in those contexts anymore, either.

File Explorer changed with the advent of Windows 8, I think, it could be
with 8.1, such that the old file menu is not there and CTRL+N doesn't create
a new folder, but instead creates a new, second File Explorer window.

CTRL+Shift+N replaces CTRL+N in File Explorer for creating a new folder via
a keyboard shortcut.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:49 am, Londa Peterson wrote:
I certainly don't mean to be hard on you. I just don't like to see people misinformed.

 Londa,

           I did not take your commentary as being personally directed.  I, too, do not like to see anyone misinformed, whether intentionally or by accident, and with software as feature laden as JAWS that can happen.

           In an off-forums conversation with another poster he actually taught me what forms mode actually was/is, as I've only been working intensively with JAWS post the introduction of auto-forms mode.  Never having had to turn forms mode on I never really understood what separated it from "normal JAWS behavior."  Now that I know what came before, that auto mode can be turned off, if desired, an that auto forms mode really applies (for all practical intents and purposes) to the behavior of edit boxes I get it a lot better.   I also get the idea of the JAWS cursor, PC Cursor, and JAWS Virtual Cursor much better thanks to this persons efforts.

           I came here to learn, and that was a good decision.  Sometimes you learn the most from the most intense criticism as well.  If I put my ideas out there for public comment I fully expect that some of that public comment may be critical, and justifiably so.  I simply ignore what I consider to be rants not based in actually reading what has been explicitly said and/or strongly implied.

Brian


Re: Forums Question & possible change request

 

Nicole,

         Chacun à son goût.   I haven't worried about e-mail attachments for a long time now.  There's virtually no antivirus that doesn't scan them, and often on upload as well as later on download.

          As I've said on a number of other technology forums I participate on, most infections are the result of poor "browsing and link-clicking hygiene."  The best line of defense is looking at who posted what link(s) and/or attachment(s) and deciding if you think you can trust that source.

          I had a private disagreement with a poster on this forum about the fact that I post links using in-line click-through text in a sentence rather than posting the actual links in their naked http format.  This was based upon the perception that click-through text allows spoofing but naked links do not.  I then sent said poster to another technology forum where I brought this up so that they could see an example of a "naked link" that had been spoofed to take you somewhere else (safe, in this case, but to prove the point).

          The advantages for the historical record and ease of use far outweigh the risks, in my opinion.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Londa Peterson
 

 Oh, absolutely! I have heard a number of trainers tell people that they had to have a number pad for JAWS to work properly. I'm glad you're not doing this. By the way, on the point of touch screens, I think JAWS does disable all other gestures but its own. My husband has tried to use my touch screen with JAWS running, and normal gestures do not work much to his frustration. There are actually many JAWS users out there who are using tablets with bluetooth keyboards because it's a cheap computer. I've taught a couple of people to do this, and it has worked quite well for their needs. I certainly don't mean to be hard on you. I just don't like to see people misinformed.  

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:56 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

Londa,

         Off forum, were I ever to have a client with a device that comes with a keyboard without a number pad I'd be using the laptop keystrokes with them out of necessity.  I just tend to teach to match that individual's hardware.  I make them aware that there are dedicated laptop keystrokes in case they ever find themselves doing a switch to that sort of laptop, but I don't teach those because I can't see the point at the time that they don't have to use them (and we've got the desktop ones for them to master).

Brian


Re: Forums Question & possible change request

Nicole Massey <nyyki@...>
 

I don't know about the decisions of the current list administrator here, but I make a point of deactivating attachments on all the mailing lists I own. The chance to proliferate viruses is just too high if attachments are turned on.
You make a valid point regarding historicity and posterity. Still, in my point of view the virus/Trojan/worm issue trumps that. YMMV, and the list owner here may also disagree with me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:28 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Forums Question & possible change request

Nicole,

I could do the same with Google Drive, but that involves a
large number of additional steps. If a forum can support file
attachments I personally think it should, and so I've asked the
question. If it either doesn't, or does but the administrator won't
activate that option, then I'll go that route.

I also find the third-party file hosting services to be a bad
idea from the viewpoint of "the historical record" for someone
searching these forums at a much later point in time. People will
often delete old files that they no longer had use for when space gets
tight, but that then leaves anyone who might want a file like this for
practice after that happens without any access to it. If it's done as
an attachment and is held on the forums server that attachment usually
has a life as long as the actual forum itself.

Brian


For all you CTRL+N "Create New Folder" users in Windows up to Win7

 
Edited

Up front Addendum:  I had unintentionally mixed-up CTRL+N (which is used in several contexts to create new things, but has never been in Windows Explorer or File Explorer to create a new folder, with CTRL+Shift+N), so I'm deleting that part.  But for anyone who may still be using the old file menu driven shortcut, the below still applies.  Unfortunately, I can't change the title of the thread.

The ability to use ALT+F,W,F changed with Windows 8 and carries over to Windows 10.    It doesn't work in those contexts anymore.

CTRL+Shift+N replaces ALT+F,W,F and is the sole method (that I know of) in File Explorer for creating a new folder via a keyboard shortcut.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

What’s more, JAWS’ training material has ample info about both.  Material is easily useable by beginners,.

 

Ted

 

From: Martin Blackwell via Groups.io [mailto:taoman1@...]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 6:39 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

Hi,

 

Good post. That’s pretty much what I do as well. I end up teaching a lot more Windows shortcuts than JAWS shortcuts. People want to get things done in their applications. To me, Windows shortcuts are far more likely to be valuable, as I think you are saying. That is not to say that one can ignore JAWS commands though.

 

And I usually teach the Windows shortcut for creating folders (Control Shift N) for recent versions of Windows instead of the menu way.

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 3:13 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hello All,

          What follows is a rather philosophical question but that certainly has practical implications that the cohort will know about a lot more personally than I ever can.  Hence this is the place to ask.

          When I tutor on using JAWS I do not focus exclusively on JAWS and its keystrokes because JAWS hovers on top of all other Windows programs and assists in using those.  My philosophy is that I want my clients to know as many, if not more, keyboard shortcuts that are universally, or very close to universally, applicable in all Windows programs.  I want them to know that, in almost all cases, ALT+F opens the file menu or equivalent, followed by S saves a file, followed by A does a Save as, etc.

          One of my clients, with whom I had a marathon 3.25 hour tutoring session yesterday, is relatively new to using Windows Live Mail as well as using PDF XChange viewer to perform OCR on the many image PDFs that still get thrown his way.  As a result, I worked him through certain tasks step-by-step and create instructions in the same format, examples of which will follow.  It was only when we were conversing afterward, and he used the phrase JAWS keyboard shortcuts when talking about conventional Windows keyboard shortcuts that I thought it important that he had at least a basic understanding that keyboard shortcuts do differ in what program layer, JAWS versus a give Windows program, is responsible for the interpretation of same.  I want him to understand how to apply Windows keyboard shortcuts "by extension" when he is playing around with a Windows program that's new to him.  Is this a mistake to try to make this distinction?  Is it unwise to not focus nearly exclusively on JAWS keyboard shortcuts for functions that also exist independently as a different Windows keyboard shortcut?  I'd love to get the perspective of those who would know the pluses and minuses of leaning one way or another.

          What follows are a couple of examples of the step-by-step instruction sets I've created, and they look more complicated than they actually are because I try to break things down into simple single steps.  Once you know what you're doing most of these tasks can be done in a few moments.  I'll include the instructions for running OCR with PDF XChange Viewer because it may be helpful to some here who have decided to play with that program.  All focus almost exclusively on using Windows keyboard shortcuts for the program in question with JAWS serving the role of narrating what's happening while you do this.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using PDF XChange Viewer to perform OCR on any PDF you receive that is an image PDF, step-by-step:

1.     Open PDF XChange Viewer from your start menu.

2.     Hit ALT+F,O to bring up the file open browsing dialog.

3.     Hit ALT+I to jump directly to the Look In combo box

4.     Hit down arrow to get into the area that’s somewhat, but not exactly, like the tree view in Windows Explorer.

5.     Hit L until you hear, “Libraries,” announced.

6.     Hit TAB two times, you should hear, “Documents”.

7.     Hit SPACEBAR to select the Documents library.

8.     Hit ENTER to open the documents library.

9.     Hit the first character of the folder or file name you’re trying to perform OCR on. Keep doing this with the first character until you hear its name announced.

10.                        Hit Enter to open the file or folder.  If you’re dealing with a file at this step go straight to step 11.  Otherwise, do the following

a.     If you know the file is in this folder then use the “hit the first character” technique to locate it and jump to step 11 once you have.

b.     If you need to drill down another folder level go back to step 9.

11.                        Hit ALT+O to open the file in PDF XChange Viewer.

12.                        Hit CTRL+SHIFT+C to open the OCR dialog box.  Immediately hit ENTER to initiate the OCR processing.  The length of time this takes depends on the size of the file being processed.  JAWS does not read the processing status box, but will announce the file’s name with star after it when the processing completes.  That’s how you’ll know it’s done.

13.                        Hit ALT+F,S to save the file and its OCR text into the original file itself.

14.                        Hit ALT+F4 to close PDF XChange Viewer.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Creating a new folder in Windows Explorer, step-by-step:

1.     Open Windows Explorer and navigate to the folder location in which you wish to create the new folder.

2.     Hit ALT+F,W,F to create the new folder itself.

3.     Type in the name you want for the new folder you’re creating.

4.     Hit ENTER to make that new name stick, and you’re done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To find a specific e-mail message in WLM, step-by-step:

1.     Hit ALT+O,FI which opens the message find submenu

2.     You are presented with two choices in this submenu:  Find Text and Find Message.  I will cover each of these briefly.

3.     Find Text presents a dialog box allows you to enter a word, words, or phrase that you know is somewhere within the message you’re trying to find.  Simply enter that text and skip to step 5.

4.     Find Message presents you with a dialog box with a number of possible attributes of the message you might want to search on, e.g., Subject, From, To, and others.  Tab through and fill in whichever of these attributes you wish to include in the search.  After you’ve filled in whichever are pertinent, go to step 5.

5.     Hit ALT+I to activate the Find Now key.  This will cause a dialog box to come up with the list of messages that match whatever you searched on, if any exist.  These are presented very much like your inbox message list, but are composed only of messages that match the search criteria you entered.  When you hear the one you’re interested in as you move through them, hit ENTER to open it.   


Re: need guidance on navigating in windows 10

 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 08:58 am, Londa Peterson wrote:
I tend to use smart navigation for tables now instead of this older style, but everyone's different in what they prefer. Also, if you're using Firefox, you can only select from virtual cursor.

 Fascinating.   I had once had hopes that FS would start supporting Firefox far more robustly than they have.  It was the #2 web browser, and never far behind IE when in that position, for years.   Now Chrome is eating everyone's proverbial shorts, and I use Firefox and Chrome both equally.

I still have hopes that FS is finally going to give up on only doing real support for IE since its end of life date is now known.  What I hope they don't do is to simply transfer allegiance to Edge, but rather pay attention to the most popular web browsers by number of users.

Clearly, just based upon the posts on this very forum, JAWS users can and do download web browsers other that IE, and then use them, all the time.  You just end up with peculiarities such as the one you've described when not using IE.

Brian


Re: need guidance on navigating in windows 10

Londa Peterson
 

 The person who wrote it probably didn't write it that way. It sounds like they selected it from a website using the virtual cursor. Basically, what you have is exactly what JAWS says when it reads it rather than what it really originally looked like. Most of the time I tend to have JAWS select and copy full content rather than from virtual cursor. You can find these options in the settings center. I tend to use smart navigation for tables now instead of this older style, but everyone's different in what they prefer. Also, if you're using Firefox, you can only select from virtual cursor. This is the main reason why I still use IE. I need to prepare documents for sighted people to read, and I'm afraid I'd forget to use IE if something else was my default. a

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 10:48 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: need guidance on navigating in windows 10

 

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 06:47 am, Negoslav Sabev wrote:

Perhaps this will help.

 Now, perhaps, is an opportunity to further my own education.  I went to this website, and the content is fabulous, but it's also not set up for sighted people (nor should it be, but I'm just saying).  I downloaded several of the "collections of all these in a single ZIP file" and unzipped same.  What follows is a straight paste from the file related to the Address Bar as it opens in Notepad on my computer:

---------------------------

Address bar

Summary: These shortcuts are for using the Address bar.

 

table with 2 columns and 8 rows

To do this

Press this 

 

Add www. to the beginning and .com to the end of text typed in the Address bar

 

Ctrl+Enter 

 

Display a list of addresses you've typed

 

F4 

 

In the Address bar, move the cursor left to the next break in the sentence

 

Ctrl+Left arrow 

 

In the Address bar, move the cursor right to the next break in the sentence

 

Ctrl+Right arrow 

 

Move backward through the list of AutoComplete matches

 

Down arrow 

 

Move forward through the list of AutoComplete matches

 

Up arrow 

 

Select the text in the Address bar

 

Alt+D

table end

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly this file is not really intended to be read as plain text, but has instructions in it noting that you have a table with two columns and eight rows, with the two columns having headings of, "To do this," and, "Press this."

What program is a file formatted in this manner typically displayed, or perhaps displayed and read, using?   I can figure it out well enough, but this Notepad presentation wouldn't be a user-friendly way to read through it for anyone.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 
Edited

Londa,

         Were I ever to have a client with a device that comes with a keyboard without a number pad I'd be using the laptop keystrokes with them out of necessity.  I just tend to teach to match that individual's hardware.  I make them aware that there are dedicated laptop keystrokes in case they ever find themselves doing a switch to that sort of laptop, but I don't teach those because I can't see the point at the time that they don't have to use them (and we've got the desktop ones for them to master).

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 08:37 am, Londa Peterson wrote:
I think JAWS changes the way the touch screen works in such a way that you really can't cause yourself problems.

 And that very well may be true, but I have absolutely no way of knowing since I haven't worked with anyone using either a touchscreen laptop, all-in-one, or 2-in-1 who's also using JAWS.  I do know that there are a number of gestures that are documented in the JAWS 16 and 17 keystrokes documents that clearly employ the touch screen, but it may be that JAWS captures anything that happens on the touch screen and if it's not one of the dedicated JAWS gestures simply doesn't pass it along to Windows.

I do know that I've watched things get chaotic (and sometimes triggered by me) when I try to point something out on the screen (which I'm used to touching on a regular screen, which does nothing) and accidentally triggering something in the quick launch bar or, if I twitch slightly, starting a program from the desktop.  That would be particularly "not good" were it to be happening unintentionally for a JAWS user.

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Londa Peterson
 

 I have a touch screen laptop with no number pad. It's a Lenovo that can actually be turned into a tablet. I have never had any sort of issue with the touch screen making the computer do something I didn't want it to do. I think JAWS changes the way the touch screen works in such a way that you really can't cause yourself problems. The mouse pad is typically the culprit in such accidents rather than the touch screen. I hate large laptops because they're still just too heavy for me. So, I learned to use laptop keystrokes. I guess that's why there are different strokes for different folks as they say.  

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 9:33 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 10:42 pm, David Moore wrote:

With people using laptops and tablets, it is important to know the JAWS key commands when JAWS is set to laptop keyboard mode.

 David,

        Just based upon my years of teaching JAWS now I have to say the answer to this is really a "yes, and no" proposition.  I could never figure out why the laptop keyboard commands never worked on any laptop any client of mine had.  It was only very recently, because of a conversation off-forum with a member, that I learned that the laptop versus desktop keyboard is a setting you can tweak and that you could, for instance, force a desktop to use laptop commands if you had learned JAWS using only laptop commands on a number-pad-less laptop.  I had originally thought that JAWS would do hardware detection to determine the keyboard layout, and perhaps it does, but I have not dealt with a laptop larger than a netbook that does not come equipped with a full keyboard with number pad in I don't know how long.  Every laptop I've ever tutored with uses the desktop keystrokes.  I make the client aware that the laptop keystrokes exist and explain the situation in which their use becomes necessary, but that's it.  I do not attempt to instruct using them because the machine they use, and probably most of the machines they will ever use, will not use those keystrokes.

          I have yet to see JAWS being used on either a tablet or touch screen laptop.  If my clients ask me for purchasing advice with regard to a laptop, I suggest that they do not go the touch screen route because so many unintended accidents can occur if they, or far more likely, their sighted helpers, begin touching the screen when pointing to it or dragging their finger down the screen (possibly closing a program), etc.

          I am soon to have the novel experience of teaching someone how to use VoiceOver on a Macbook.  I'm very rusty on VoiceOver to begin with, and I have never dealt with it except on touch devices like an iPad and an iPhone.  Trying to do VoiceOver "on a big screen" using a mouse pad will be a real learning experience for all involved!

Brian


Re: Forums Question & possible change request

 

Nicole,

         I could do the same with Google Drive, but that involves a large number of additional steps.  If a forum can support file attachments I personally think it should, and so I've asked the question.  If it either doesn't, or does but the administrator won't activate that option, then I'll go that route.

         I also find the third-party file hosting services to be a bad idea from the viewpoint of "the historical record" for someone searching these forums at a much later point in time.  People will often delete old files that they no longer had use for when space gets tight, but that then leaves anyone who might want a file like this for practice after that happens without any access to it.  If it's done as an attachment and is held on the forums server that attachment usually has a life as long as the actual forum itself.

Brian