Date   

Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Jim Portillo
 

Wow!  I love this list because I truly learn something.

I appreciate that keystroke for making a new folder.  Thank you very much!!

 

 

From: Martin Blackwell via Groups.io [mailto:taoman1@...]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 3:39 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

Hi,

 

Good post. That’s pretty much what I do as well. I end up teaching a lot more Windows shortcuts than JAWS shortcuts. People want to get things done in their applications. To me, Windows shortcuts are far more likely to be valuable, as I think you are saying. That is not to say that one can ignore JAWS commands though.

 

And I usually teach the Windows shortcut for creating folders (Control Shift N) for recent versions of Windows instead of the menu way.

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 3:13 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hello All,

          What follows is a rather philosophical question but that certainly has practical implications that the cohort will know about a lot more personally than I ever can.  Hence this is the place to ask.

          When I tutor on using JAWS I do not focus exclusively on JAWS and its keystrokes because JAWS hovers on top of all other Windows programs and assists in using those.  My philosophy is that I want my clients to know as many, if not more, keyboard shortcuts that are universally, or very close to universally, applicable in all Windows programs.  I want them to know that, in almost all cases, ALT+F opens the file menu or equivalent, followed by S saves a file, followed by A does a Save as, etc.

          One of my clients, with whom I had a marathon 3.25 hour tutoring session yesterday, is relatively new to using Windows Live Mail as well as using PDF XChange viewer to perform OCR on the many image PDFs that still get thrown his way.  As a result, I worked him through certain tasks step-by-step and create instructions in the same format, examples of which will follow.  It was only when we were conversing afterward, and he used the phrase JAWS keyboard shortcuts when talking about conventional Windows keyboard shortcuts that I thought it important that he had at least a basic understanding that keyboard shortcuts do differ in what program layer, JAWS versus a give Windows program, is responsible for the interpretation of same.  I want him to understand how to apply Windows keyboard shortcuts "by extension" when he is playing around with a Windows program that's new to him.  Is this a mistake to try to make this distinction?  Is it unwise to not focus nearly exclusively on JAWS keyboard shortcuts for functions that also exist independently as a different Windows keyboard shortcut?  I'd love to get the perspective of those who would know the pluses and minuses of leaning one way or another.

          What follows are a couple of examples of the step-by-step instruction sets I've created, and they look more complicated than they actually are because I try to break things down into simple single steps.  Once you know what you're doing most of these tasks can be done in a few moments.  I'll include the instructions for running OCR with PDF XChange Viewer because it may be helpful to some here who have decided to play with that program.  All focus almost exclusively on using WIndows keyboard shortcuts for the program in question with JAWS serving the role of narrating what's happening while you do this.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using PDF XChange Viewer to perform OCR on any PDF you receive that is an image PDF, step-by-step:

1.     Open PDF XChange Viewer from your start menu.

2.     Hit ALT+F,O to bring up the file open browsing dialog.

3.     Hit ALT+I to jump directly to the Look In combo box

4.     Hit down arrow to get into the area that’s somewhat, but not exactly, like the tree view in Windows Explorer.

5.     Hit L until you hear, “Libraries,” announced.

6.     Hit TAB two times, you should hear, “Documents”.

7.     Hit SPACEBAR to select the Documents library.

8.     Hit ENTER to open the documents library.

9.     Hit the first character of the folder or file name you’re trying to perform OCR on. Keep doing this with the first character until you hear its name announced.

10.                        Hit Enter to open the file or folder.  If you’re dealing with a file at this step go straight to step 11.  Otherwise, do the following

a.     If you know the file is in this folder then use the “hit the first character” technique to locate it and jump to step 11 once you have.

b.     If you need to drill down another folder level go back to step 9.

11.                        Hit ALT+O to open the file in PDF XChange Viewer.

12.                        Hit CTRL+SHIFT+C to open the OCR dialog box.  Immediately hit ENTER to initiate the OCR processing.  The length of time this takes depends on the size of the file being processed.  JAWS does not read the processing status box, but will announce the file’s name with star after it when the processing completes.  That’s how you’ll know it’s done.

13.                        Hit ALT+F,S to save the file and its OCR text into the original file itself.

14.                        Hit ALT+F4 to close PDF XChange Viewer.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Creating a new folder in Windows Explorer, step-by-step:

1.     Open Windows Explorer and navigate to the folder location in which you wish to create the new folder.

2.     Hit ALT+F,W,F to create the new folder itself.

3.     Type in the name you want for the new folder you’re creating.

4.     Hit ENTER to make that new name stick, and you’re done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To find a specific e-mail message in WLM, step-by-step:

1.     Hit ALT+O,FI which opens the message find submenu

2.     You are presented with two choices in this submenu:  Find Text and Find Message.  I will cover each of these briefly.

3.     Find Text presents a dialog box allows you to enter a word, words, or phrase that you know is somewhere within the message you’re trying to find.  Simply enter that text and skip to step 5.

4.     Find Message presents you with a dialog box with a number of possible attributes of the message you might want to search on, e.g., Subject, From, To, and others.  Tab through and fill in whichever of these attributes you wish to include in the search.  After you’ve filled in whichever are pertinent, go to step 5.

5.     Hit ALT+I to activate the Find Now key.  This will cause a dialog box to come up with the list of messages that match whatever you searched on, if any exist.  These are presented very much like your inbox message list, but are composed only of messages that match the search criteria you entered.  When you hear the one you’re interested in as you move through them, hit ENTER to open it.   


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Paul D. J. Jenkins <pdjj6123@...>
 

Hi Brian,

 

  I apologize for mentioning things Martin had already touched upon.  I had not yet finished reading my E-Mails when I replied to your messages.  I hear you...  But, personally, I absolutely love control shift N!  It's Like, Bang!  Yes!  LOL!

 

Have a wonderful evening!

 

Paul

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 18:52
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

Paul & Martin,

         Thanks for your input.  I had forgotten about CTRL+SHIFT+N.  Windows has a tendency to give way too many ways to accomplish the same tasks, but at least that gives people things to choose from.

         I may bring that command in, too, but I find that this client gets easily overwhelmed when I tell him something along the lines of, "You're going to perform function X, and you can do that this way, that way, or this other way, whichever you prefer."  For some clients that either has them instantly glom on to the technique they like the best or try doing it each way and then sticking with the one they like (at which point I try to note what that is for the specific client).  Others, though, suffer almost instant choice overload.

          Since this client is doing a lot of things that are somewhat menu intensive I've been shifting my own focus that way.  I do need to step back for certain really common functions that can be done with a single combination key press.

Thanks Again,

Brian


Re: IE11 installation saga

James Homuth
 

It sounds like what might have happened is something went whacky when IE 10 was installed. Here's the typical situation. Tech support removes IE 11, so Windows 7 automaticly rolls you back to IE 8--the first version of IE 7 ships with. Then IE 10 gets installed, probably manually, as Windows update will want to launch you straight into IE 11 (it did for me a couple days ago). So the way I'd get around it were I you is to uninstall IE 10, let Windows roll you back to IE 8, then try to install IE 11. Hopefully in doing so, whatever whackyness is happening with 10 will have been preemptively undone.
 
Relatedly, this is also why you won't see an IE 8 installer for Windows 7, or presumedly an IE 11 installer for windows 8.1 or 10. That version ships with Windows, so you can just remove it by going into that version of Windows's equivalent of "turn Windows features on or off". It essentially performs the same tasks. I agree Microsoft should make a stand-alone installer available, but that's never happened and won't ever happen--it's why you won't find IE in, say, the ninite installer package (I've never seen it there, and I've used that utility for years).


From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@...]
Sent: January-08-16 5:32 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: IE11 installation saga

Hi. I’ve received several queries off-list about my experience attempting to upgrade from IE10 to IE11. I’m about to describe an immensely frustrating day with no end in sight, but I want to begin by emphasizing that accessibility is not an issue and that you have nothing to lose by trying.

 

So, I start with the good news. I downloaded IE11 via the link I posted earlier. Here it is again:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx

 

I note that Mario provides a link to what may be a different page that intrigues me, but I think in my case I’m way beyond taking advantage of it.

 

In any event, to resume the good story. After downloading IE11, which I did from the “run” rather than the “save” dialog, the program began installation. I’m confident that had it not encountered some as-yet undetermined problem, the installation would have completed fine, my machine would have rebooted, perhaps there would have been a long delay as Windows reconfigured, but ultimately the machine would have returned in good health and with IE11 running.

 

In short, don’t go by the rest of my experience. If IE11 doesn’t install, you lose nothing. IE10 continues to work fine, and your system shouldn’t otherwise be affected.

 

Okay, now for the saga. Kimber was kind enough to post a reminder of the Microsoft Accessibility number, so I called. During the course of two hours, the rep repeated everything I’d done on my own and came to the same point. She added a system check and, although I had some difficulty understanding her (she kept speaking away from the mouthpiece), I believe she also did a repair of IE. The next step, she said, was to run a repair of Windows, and if that failed to reinstall Windows. At that point, I said I’d call my own tech support guy, in whom I have complete faith. Naturally, he’s a busy man and he doesn’t come cheap, but I thought this problem would be routine for MS to fix.

 

Note. The MS Accessibility person failed to disconnect when we hung up, and she also left my system at the administrator level rather than the one I normally use. The only way I found to disconnect was to reboot. My first Microsoft Accessibility experience wasn’t encouraging, but I know many of you have had much better results there.

 

My tech guy repeated the same procedures, but he added at least one. In addition to downloading from what I believe was the same MS webpage I used, he tried installing via Windows Updates. Whereas I’d gone as far as 45%, as did the Microsoft person, he got to 75% before MS sent a message to the effect, “too bad.”

 

I then suggested a system restore. Now here, I have to go back to Wednesday, when the problem started. I’ve been having a problem with certain webpages at my investment broker’s website, and so we set up a tech support session for that day. They made two mistakes, looking back from this vantage point. First, they assured me that IE10 had the same level and duration of support as IE11, which was the only reason I agreed to let them roll my system back to IE10. (they were running IE10 and not experiencing the same problem I had.) As an aside, it was based on that assurance that I posted my optimistic IE10 message here later that day. As we all know now, support for IE10 actually expires next Tuesday.

 

Second, in order to fix a problem that came up (they inadvertently installed IE8 rather than IE10), my investment broker tech guys used a restore point. A restore point prior to Wednesday would have been a potential lifesaver today, but the only ones I have now go back only as far as yesterday.

 

So, big caveat: Don’t trust tech support staff who want to meddle with your system. This has been my longstanding rule, and to the extent I violate it, I try to keep on top of what they’re doing and refuse to let them go ahead if I have any doubts. I trusted these guys.

 

The net result of my experience today, leading into the weekend, is that while downloading went fine from several sources, installation kept failing and no one can figure out why. Five hours on the phone, none of my own work done, and I don’t have a solution.

 


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

Paul & Martin,

         Thanks for your input.  I had forgotten about CTRL+SHIFT+N.  Windows has a tendency to give way too many ways to accomplish the same tasks, but at least that gives people things to choose from.

         I may bring that command in, too, but I find that this client gets easily overwhelmed when I tell him something along the lines of, "You're going to perform function X, and you can do that this way, that way, or this other way, whichever you prefer."  For some clients that either has them instantly glom on to the technique they like the best or try doing it each way and then sticking with the one they like (at which point I try to note what that is for the specific client).  Others, though, suffer almost instant choice overload.

          Since this client is doing a lot of things that are somewhat menu intensive I've been shifting my own focus that way.  I do need to step back for certain really common functions that can be done with a single combination key press.

Thanks Again,

Brian


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Paul D. J. Jenkins <pdjj6123@...>
 

Hello, again, Brian,

 

  In certain programs, such as Microsoft Word and Excel, (specifically versions 10 and earlier), F12 will take a user directly to the Save as dialogue.

 

Bye,

 

Paul

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 18:13
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hello All,

          What follows is a rather philosophical question but that certainly has practical implications that the cohort will know about a lot more personally than I ever can.  Hence this is the place to ask.

          When I tutor on using JAWS I do not focus exclusively on JAWS and its keystrokes because JAWS hovers on top of all other Windows programs and assists in using those.  My philosophy is that I want my clients to know as many, if not more, keyboard shortcuts that are universally, or very close to universally, applicable in all Windows programs.  I want them to know that, in almost all cases, ALT+F opens the file menu or equivalent, followed by S saves a file, followed by A does a Save as, etc.

          One of my clients, with whom I had a marathon 3.25 hour tutoring session yesterday, is relatively new to using Windows Live Mail as well as using PDF XChange viewer to perform OCR on the many image PDFs that still get thrown his way.  As a result, I worked him through certain tasks step-by-step and create instructions in the same format, examples of which will follow.  It was only when we were conversing afterward, and he used the phrase JAWS keyboard shortcuts when talking about conventional Windows keyboard shortcuts that I thought it important that he had at least a basic understanding that keyboard shortcuts do differ in what program layer, JAWS versus a give Windows program, is responsible for the interpretation of same.  I want him to understand how to apply Windows keyboard shortcuts "by extension" when he is playing around with a Windows program that's new to him.  Is this a mistake to try to make this distinction?  Is it unwise to not focus nearly exclusively on JAWS keyboard shortcuts for functions that also exist independently as a different Windows keyboard shortcut?  I'd love to get the perspective of those who would know the pluses and minuses of leaning one way or another.

          What follows are a couple of examples of the step-by-step instruction sets I've created, and they look more complicated than they actually are because I try to break things down into simple single steps.  Once you know what you're doing most of these tasks can be done in a few moments.  I'll include the instructions for running OCR with PDF XChange Viewer because it may be helpful to some here who have decided to play with that program.  All focus almost exclusively on using WIndows keyboard shortcuts for the program in question with JAWS serving the role of narrating what's happening while you do this.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using PDF XChange Viewer to perform OCR on any PDF you receive that is an image PDF, step-by-step:

1.     Open PDF XChange Viewer from your start menu.

2.     Hit ALT+F,O to bring up the file open browsing dialog.

3.     Hit ALT+I to jump directly to the Look In combo box

4.     Hit down arrow to get into the area that’s somewhat, but not exactly, like the tree view in Windows Explorer.

5.     Hit L until you hear, “Libraries,” announced.

6.     Hit TAB two times, you should hear, “Documents”.

7.     Hit SPACEBAR to select the Documents library.

8.     Hit ENTER to open the documents library.

9.     Hit the first character of the folder or file name you’re trying to perform OCR on. Keep doing this with the first character until you hear its name announced.

10.                        Hit Enter to open the file or folder.  If you’re dealing with a file at this step go straight to step 11.  Otherwise, do the following

a.     If you know the file is in this folder then use the “hit the first character” technique to locate it and jump to step 11 once you have.

b.     If you need to drill down another folder level go back to step 9.

11.                        Hit ALT+O to open the file in PDF XChange Viewer.

12.                        Hit CTRL+SHIFT+C to open the OCR dialog box.  Immediately hit ENTER to initiate the OCR processing.  The length of time this takes depends on the size of the file being processed.  JAWS does not read the processing status box, but will announce the file’s name with star after it when the processing completes.  That’s how you’ll know it’s done.

13.                        Hit ALT+F,S to save the file and its OCR text into the original file itself.

14.                        Hit ALT+F4 to close PDF XChange Viewer.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Creating a new folder in Windows Explorer, step-by-step:

1.     Open Windows Explorer and navigate to the folder location in which you wish to create the new folder.

2.     Hit ALT+F,W,F to create the new folder itself.

3.     Type in the name you want for the new folder you’re creating.

4.     Hit ENTER to make that new name stick, and you’re done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To find a specific e-mail message in WLM, step-by-step:

1.     Hit ALT+O,FI which opens the message find submenu

2.     You are presented with two choices in this submenu:  Find Text and Find Message.  I will cover each of these briefly.

3.     Find Text presents a dialog box allows you to enter a word, words, or phrase that you know is somewhere within the message you’re trying to find.  Simply enter that text and skip to step 5.

4.     Find Message presents you with a dialog box with a number of possible attributes of the message you might want to search on, e.g., Subject, From, To, and others.  Tab through and fill in whichever of these attributes you wish to include in the search.  After you’ve filled in whichever are pertinent, go to step 5.

5.     Hit ALT+I to activate the Find Now key.  This will cause a dialog box to come up with the list of messages that match whatever you searched on, if any exist.  These are presented very much like your inbox message list, but are composed only of messages that match the search criteria you entered.  When you hear the one you’re interested in as you move through them, hit ENTER to open it.   


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Paul D. J. Jenkins <pdjj6123@...>
 

Hello Brian,

 

  I know in Windows Vista, and 7, control, plus, shift, plus N, as in Nancy, will let you create a new folder while in Windows explorer.  I think your question might need to be answered on a case-by-case basis.  Some folks may want to learn as few key strokes as possible, and so for them, if JAWS is their primary ScreenReader, it could be beneficial for them to learn key strokes within the JAWS program.  Other folks may want to explore more, and might be required to use multiple ScreenReaders.  I personally like to know Windows commands when I can.  I always am amused when I meet a blind person who insists that alt plus M, as in Mike, is a JAWS-specific command.  On the other hand, I wish there were a way to bring Narrator into the System Tray focus during a fresh Windows install.  I hope this helps.

 

Have a great weekend!

 

Paul

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 18:13
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

Hello All,

          What follows is a rather philosophical question but that certainly has practical implications that the cohort will know about a lot more personally than I ever can.  Hence this is the place to ask.

          When I tutor on using JAWS I do not focus exclusively on JAWS and its keystrokes because JAWS hovers on top of all other Windows programs and assists in using those.  My philosophy is that I want my clients to know as many, if not more, keyboard shortcuts that are universally, or very close to universally, applicable in all Windows programs.  I want them to know that, in almost all cases, ALT+F opens the file menu or equivalent, followed by S saves a file, followed by A does a Save as, etc.

          One of my clients, with whom I had a marathon 3.25 hour tutoring session yesterday, is relatively new to using Windows Live Mail as well as using PDF XChange viewer to perform OCR on the many image PDFs that still get thrown his way.  As a result, I worked him through certain tasks step-by-step and create instructions in the same format, examples of which will follow.  It was only when we were conversing afterward, and he used the phrase JAWS keyboard shortcuts when talking about conventional Windows keyboard shortcuts that I thought it important that he had at least a basic understanding that keyboard shortcuts do differ in what program layer, JAWS versus a give Windows program, is responsible for the interpretation of same.  I want him to understand how to apply Windows keyboard shortcuts "by extension" when he is playing around with a Windows program that's new to him.  Is this a mistake to try to make this distinction?  Is it unwise to not focus nearly exclusively on JAWS keyboard shortcuts for functions that also exist independently as a different Windows keyboard shortcut?  I'd love to get the perspective of those who would know the pluses and minuses of leaning one way or another.

          What follows are a couple of examples of the step-by-step instruction sets I've created, and they look more complicated than they actually are because I try to break things down into simple single steps.  Once you know what you're doing most of these tasks can be done in a few moments.  I'll include the instructions for running OCR with PDF XChange Viewer because it may be helpful to some here who have decided to play with that program.  All focus almost exclusively on using WIndows keyboard shortcuts for the program in question with JAWS serving the role of narrating what's happening while you do this.  For some reason the copy and paste from Word for the second two sets of instructions are not carrying over the numbers, and the forum is being cranky about allowing me to edit them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using PDF XChange Viewer to perform OCR on any PDF you receive that is an image PDF, step-by-step:

1.     Open PDF XChange Viewer from your start menu.

2.     Hit ALT+F,O to bring up the file open browsing dialog.

3.     Hit ALT+I to jump directly to the Look In combo box

4.     Hit down arrow to get into the area that’s somewhat, but not exactly, like the tree view in Windows Explorer.

5.     Hit L until you hear, “Libraries,” announced.

6.     Hit TAB two times, you should hear, “Documents”.

7.     Hit SPACEBAR to select the Documents library.

8.     Hit ENTER to open the documents library.

9.     Hit the first character of the folder or file name you’re trying to perform OCR on. Keep doing this with the first character until you hear its name announced.

10.                        Hit Enter to open the file or folder.  If you’re dealing with a file at this step go straight to step 11.  Otherwise, do the following

a.     If you know the file is in this folder then use the “hit the first character” technique to locate it and jump to step 11 once you have.

b.     If you need to drill down another folder level go back to step 9.

11.                        Hit ALT+O to open the file in PDF XChange Viewer.

12.                        Hit CTRL+SHIFT+C to open the OCR dialog box.  Immediately hit ENTER to initiate the OCR processing.  The length of time this takes depends on the size of the file being processed.  JAWS does not read the processing status box, but will announce the file’s name with star after it when the processing completes.  That’s how you’ll know it’s done.

13.                        Hit ALT+F,S to save the file and its OCR text into the original file itself.

14.                        Hit ALT+F4 to close PDF XChange Viewer.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Creating a new folder in Windows Explorer, step-by-step:

1.     Open Windows Explorer and navigate to the folder location in which you wish to create the new folder.

2.     Hit ALT+F,W,F to create the new folder itself.

3.     Type in the name you want for the new folder you’re creating.

4.     Hit ENTER to make that new name stick, and you’re done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To find a specific e-mail message in WLM, step-by-step:

1.     Hit ALT+O,FI which opens the message find submenu

2.     You are presented with two choices in this submenu:  Find Text and Find Message.  I will cover each of these briefly.

3.     Find Text presents a dialog box allows you to enter a word, words, or phrase that you know is somewhere within the message you’re trying to find.  Simply enter that text and skip to step 5.

4.     Find Message presents you with a dialog box with a number of possible attributes of the message you might want to search on, e.g., Subject, From, To, and others.  Tab through and fill in whichever of these attributes you wish to include in the search.  After you’ve filled in whichever are pertinent, go to step 5.

5.     Hit ALT+I to activate the Find Now key.  This will cause a dialog box to come up with the list of messages that match whatever you searched on, if any exist.  These are presented very much like your inbox message list, but are composed only of messages that match the search criteria you entered.  When you hear the one you’re interested in as you move through them, hit ENTER to open it.   


Re: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

Martin Blackwell
 

Hi,

 

Good post. That’s pretty much what I do as well. I end up teaching a lot more Windows shortcuts than JAWS shortcuts. People want to get things done in their applications. To me, Windows shortcuts are far more likely to be valuable, as I think you are saying. That is not to say that one can ignore JAWS commands though.

 

And I usually teach the Windows shortcut for creating folders (Control Shift N) for recent versions of Windows instead of the menu way.

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 3:13 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hello All,

          What follows is a rather philosophical question but that certainly has practical implications that the cohort will know about a lot more personally than I ever can.  Hence this is the place to ask.

          When I tutor on using JAWS I do not focus exclusively on JAWS and its keystrokes because JAWS hovers on top of all other Windows programs and assists in using those.  My philosophy is that I want my clients to know as many, if not more, keyboard shortcuts that are universally, or very close to universally, applicable in all Windows programs.  I want them to know that, in almost all cases, ALT+F opens the file menu or equivalent, followed by S saves a file, followed by A does a Save as, etc.

          One of my clients, with whom I had a marathon 3.25 hour tutoring session yesterday, is relatively new to using Windows Live Mail as well as using PDF XChange viewer to perform OCR on the many image PDFs that still get thrown his way.  As a result, I worked him through certain tasks step-by-step and create instructions in the same format, examples of which will follow.  It was only when we were conversing afterward, and he used the phrase JAWS keyboard shortcuts when talking about conventional Windows keyboard shortcuts that I thought it important that he had at least a basic understanding that keyboard shortcuts do differ in what program layer, JAWS versus a give Windows program, is responsible for the interpretation of same.  I want him to understand how to apply Windows keyboard shortcuts "by extension" when he is playing around with a Windows program that's new to him.  Is this a mistake to try to make this distinction?  Is it unwise to not focus nearly exclusively on JAWS keyboard shortcuts for functions that also exist independently as a different Windows keyboard shortcut?  I'd love to get the perspective of those who would know the pluses and minuses of leaning one way or another.

          What follows are a couple of examples of the step-by-step instruction sets I've created, and they look more complicated than they actually are because I try to break things down into simple single steps.  Once you know what you're doing most of these tasks can be done in a few moments.  I'll include the instructions for running OCR with PDF XChange Viewer because it may be helpful to some here who have decided to play with that program.  All focus almost exclusively on using WIndows keyboard shortcuts for the program in question with JAWS serving the role of narrating what's happening while you do this.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using PDF XChange Viewer to perform OCR on any PDF you receive that is an image PDF, step-by-step:

1.     Open PDF XChange Viewer from your start menu.

2.     Hit ALT+F,O to bring up the file open browsing dialog.

3.     Hit ALT+I to jump directly to the Look In combo box

4.     Hit down arrow to get into the area that’s somewhat, but not exactly, like the tree view in Windows Explorer.

5.     Hit L until you hear, “Libraries,” announced.

6.     Hit TAB two times, you should hear, “Documents”.

7.     Hit SPACEBAR to select the Documents library.

8.     Hit ENTER to open the documents library.

9.     Hit the first character of the folder or file name you’re trying to perform OCR on. Keep doing this with the first character until you hear its name announced.

10.                        Hit Enter to open the file or folder.  If you’re dealing with a file at this step go straight to step 11.  Otherwise, do the following

a.     If you know the file is in this folder then use the “hit the first character” technique to locate it and jump to step 11 once you have.

b.     If you need to drill down another folder level go back to step 9.

11.                        Hit ALT+O to open the file in PDF XChange Viewer.

12.                        Hit CTRL+SHIFT+C to open the OCR dialog box.  Immediately hit ENTER to initiate the OCR processing.  The length of time this takes depends on the size of the file being processed.  JAWS does not read the processing status box, but will announce the file’s name with star after it when the processing completes.  That’s how you’ll know it’s done.

13.                        Hit ALT+F,S to save the file and its OCR text into the original file itself.

14.                        Hit ALT+F4 to close PDF XChange Viewer.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Creating a new folder in Windows Explorer, step-by-step:

1.     Open Windows Explorer and navigate to the folder location in which you wish to create the new folder.

2.     Hit ALT+F,W,F to create the new folder itself.

3.     Type in the name you want for the new folder you’re creating.

4.     Hit ENTER to make that new name stick, and you’re done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To find a specific e-mail message in WLM, step-by-step:

1.     Hit ALT+O,FI which opens the message find submenu

2.     You are presented with two choices in this submenu:  Find Text and Find Message.  I will cover each of these briefly.

3.     Find Text presents a dialog box allows you to enter a word, words, or phrase that you know is somewhere within the message you’re trying to find.  Simply enter that text and skip to step 5.

4.     Find Message presents you with a dialog box with a number of possible attributes of the message you might want to search on, e.g., Subject, From, To, and others.  Tab through and fill in whichever of these attributes you wish to include in the search.  After you’ve filled in whichever are pertinent, go to step 5.

5.     Hit ALT+I to activate the Find Now key.  This will cause a dialog box to come up with the list of messages that match whatever you searched on, if any exist.  These are presented very much like your inbox message list, but are composed only of messages that match the search criteria you entered.  When you hear the one you’re interested in as you move through them, hit ENTER to open it.   


Re: Question On Upgradeing to IE 11 from IE 10

 

Tom,

           Since IE is closely integrated into the Windows operating system there cannot be two versions of that software on a single machine at the same time.  As Adrian has noted if an IE11 install fails the typical result is an automatic rollback to whatever version of IE you had on your machine before attempting to install it.

Brian


Question On Upgradeing to IE 11 from IE 10

Tom Behler
 

Hello, everyone.

 

With the ending of Microsoft support for IE 10, I’m planning to upgrade to IE 11 soon, perhaps as early as sometime this week-end.

 

However, in light of problems that Adrian and others have had with the upgrade, I must ask a question.

 

If I upgrade to IE 11, does that over-write IE 10, or will IE 10 still be on my machine, if I need to go back to it for some reason?  This is obviously not what I would like to do, but I just want to be sure the option is there if needed.

 

I have been using Firefox more and more as my main internet browser, but still would like to have IE handy as a backup.

 

One of these days, I’ll try google chrome, but it may be a while yet until I get the time to do so.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 


Views on Keyboard Shortcuts to teach or, perhaps, emphasize when teaching

 
Edited

Hello All,

          What follows is a rather philosophical question but that certainly has practical implications that the cohort will know about a lot more personally than I ever can.  Hence this is the place to ask.

          When I tutor on using JAWS I do not focus exclusively on JAWS and its keystrokes because JAWS hovers on top of all other Windows programs and assists in using those.  My philosophy is that I want my clients to know as many, if not more, keyboard shortcuts that are universally, or very close to universally, applicable in all Windows programs.  I want them to know that, in almost all cases, ALT+F opens the file menu or equivalent, followed by S saves a file, followed by A does a Save as, etc.

          One of my clients, with whom I had a marathon 3.25 hour tutoring session yesterday, is relatively new to using Windows Live Mail as well as using PDF XChange viewer to perform OCR on the many image PDFs that still get thrown his way.  As a result, I worked him through certain tasks step-by-step and create instructions in the same format, examples of which will follow.  It was only when we were conversing afterward, and he used the phrase JAWS keyboard shortcuts when talking about conventional Windows keyboard shortcuts that I thought it important that he had at least a basic understanding that keyboard shortcuts do differ in what program layer, JAWS versus a give Windows program, is responsible for the interpretation of same.  I want him to understand how to apply Windows keyboard shortcuts "by extension" when he is playing around with a Windows program that's new to him.  Is this a mistake to try to make this distinction?  Is it unwise to not focus nearly exclusively on JAWS keyboard shortcuts for functions that also exist independently as a different Windows keyboard shortcut?  I'd love to get the perspective of those who would know the pluses and minuses of leaning one way or another.

          What follows are a couple of examples of the step-by-step instruction sets I've created, and they look more complicated than they actually are because I try to break things down into simple single steps.  Once you know what you're doing most of these tasks can be done in a few moments.  I'll include the instructions for running OCR with PDF XChange Viewer because it may be helpful to some here who have decided to play with that program.  All focus almost exclusively on using WIndows keyboard shortcuts for the program in question with JAWS serving the role of narrating what's happening while you do this.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using PDF XChange Viewer to perform OCR on any PDF you receive that is an image PDF, step-by-step:

1.     Open PDF XChange Viewer from your start menu.

2.     Hit ALT+F,O to bring up the file open browsing dialog.

3.     Hit ALT+I to jump directly to the Look In combo box

4.     Hit down arrow to get into the area that’s somewhat, but not exactly, like the tree view in Windows Explorer.

5.     Hit L until you hear, “Libraries,” announced.

6.     Hit TAB two times, you should hear, “Documents”.

7.     Hit SPACEBAR to select the Documents library.

8.     Hit ENTER to open the documents library.

9.     Hit the first character of the folder or file name you’re trying to perform OCR on. Keep doing this with the first character until you hear its name announced.

10.                        Hit Enter to open the file or folder.  If you’re dealing with a file at this step go straight to step 11.  Otherwise, do the following

a.     If you know the file is in this folder then use the “hit the first character” technique to locate it and jump to step 11 once you have.

b.     If you need to drill down another folder level go back to step 9.

11.                        Hit ALT+O to open the file in PDF XChange Viewer.

12.                        Hit CTRL+SHIFT+C to open the OCR dialog box.  Immediately hit ENTER to initiate the OCR processing.  The length of time this takes depends on the size of the file being processed.  JAWS does not read the processing status box, but will announce the file’s name with star after it when the processing completes.  That’s how you’ll know it’s done.

13.                        Hit ALT+F,S to save the file and its OCR text into the original file itself.

14.                        Hit ALT+F4 to close PDF XChange Viewer.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Creating a new folder in Windows Explorer, step-by-step:

1.     Open Windows Explorer and navigate to the folder location in which you wish to create the new folder.

2.     Hit ALT+F,W,F to create the new folder itself.

3.     Type in the name you want for the new folder you’re creating.

4.     Hit ENTER to make that new name stick, and you’re done.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To find a specific e-mail message in WLM, step-by-step:

1.     Hit ALT+O,FI which opens the message find submenu

2.     You are presented with two choices in this submenu:  Find Text and Find Message.  I will cover each of these briefly.

3.     Find Text presents a dialog box allows you to enter a word, words, or phrase that you know is somewhere within the message you’re trying to find.  Simply enter that text and skip to step 5.

4.     Find Message presents you with a dialog box with a number of possible attributes of the message you might want to search on, e.g., Subject, From, To, and others.  Tab through and fill in whichever of these attributes you wish to include in the search.  After you’ve filled in whichever are pertinent, go to step 5.

5.     Hit ALT+I to activate the Find Now key.  This will cause a dialog box to come up with the list of messages that match whatever you searched on, if any exist.  These are presented very much like your inbox message list, but are composed only of messages that match the search criteria you entered.  When you hear the one you’re interested in as you move through them, hit ENTER to open it.   


Re: IE11 installation saga

Mike B <mb69mach1@...>
 

No not at all, I'm still awake!  LOL  LOL  What a pain in the ass!  I do have 1 suggestion though, you might want to increase your allocation space for System Restore points so you can have more than a few.  When you checked your System Restore points, did you check the box, Choose A Different Restore Point, so more restore points would show than what what is in the initial list?  To get to this checkbox you can shift + tab from the initial list but, if that doesn't bring it up you will have to use the Jaws cursor to find it.
Take care.
Mike

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 2:31 PM
Subject: IE11 installation saga

Hi. I’ve received several queries off-list about my experience attempting to upgrade from IE10 to IE11. I’m about to describe an immensely frustrating day with no end in sight, but I want to begin by emphasizing that accessibility is not an issue and that you have nothing to lose by trying.

 

So, I start with the good news. I downloaded IE11 via the link I posted earlier. Here it is again:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx

 

I note that Mario provides a link to what may be a different page that intrigues me, but I think in my case I’m way beyond taking advantage of it.

 

In any event, to resume the good story. After downloading IE11, which I did from the “run” rather than the “save” dialog, the program began installation. I’m confident that had it not encountered some as-yet undetermined problem, the installation would have completed fine, my machine would have rebooted, perhaps there would have been a long delay as Windows reconfigured, but ultimately the machine would have returned in good health and with IE11 running.

 

In short, don’t go by the rest of my experience. If IE11 doesn’t install, you lose nothing. IE10 continues to work fine, and your system shouldn’t otherwise be affected.

 

Okay, now for the saga. Kimber was kind enough to post a reminder of the Microsoft Accessibility number, so I called. During the course of two hours, the rep repeated everything I’d done on my own and came to the same point. She added a system check and, although I had some difficulty understanding her (she kept speaking away from the mouthpiece), I believe she also did a repair of IE. The next step, she said, was to run a repair of Windows, and if that failed to reinstall Windows. At that point, I said I’d call my own tech support guy, in whom I have complete faith. Naturally, he’s a busy man and he doesn’t come cheap, but I thought this problem would be routine for MS to fix.

 

Note. The MS Accessibility person failed to disconnect when we hung up, and she also left my system at the administrator level rather than the one I normally use. The only way I found to disconnect was to reboot. My first Microsoft Accessibility experience wasn’t encouraging, but I know many of you have had much better results there.

 

My tech guy repeated the same procedures, but he added at least one. In addition to downloading from what I believe was the same MS webpage I used, he tried installing via Windows Updates. Whereas I’d gone as far as 45%, as did the Microsoft person, he got to 75% before MS sent a message to the effect, “too bad.”

 

I then suggested a system restore. Now here, I have to go back to Wednesday, when the problem started. I’ve been having a problem with certain webpages at my investment broker’s website, and so we set up a tech support session for that day. They made two mistakes, looking back from this vantage point. First, they assured me that IE10 had the same level and duration of support as IE11, which was the only reason I agreed to let them roll my system back to IE10. (they were running IE10 and not experiencing the same problem I had.) As an aside, it was based on that assurance that I posted my optimistic IE10 message here later that day. As we all know now, support for IE10 actually expires next Tuesday.

 

Second, in order to fix a problem that came up (they inadvertently installed IE8 rather than IE10), my investment broker tech guys used a restore point. A restore point prior to Wednesday would have been a potential lifesaver today, but the only ones I have now go back only as far as yesterday.

 

So, big caveat: Don’t trust tech support staff who want to meddle with your system. This has been my longstanding rule, and to the extent I violate it, I try to keep on top of what they’re doing and refuse to let them go ahead if I have any doubts. I trusted these guys.

 

The net result of my experience today, leading into the weekend, is that while downloading went fine from several sources, installation kept failing and no one can figure out why. Five hours on the phone, none of my own work done, and I don’t have a solution.

 


Re: Support for Internet Explorer 11 in the Windows 10 Operating System

 

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 02:17 pm, David Moore wrote:
The installer file can be downloaded to one computer, and you can put that exe file onto a flash drive or any external drive and then run that on another computer.

 David,

            It is important to note that the installers can only be downloaded for the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Internet Explorer 11 for Windows 7.  The same facility does not exist for the version of IE11 that runs on Windows 8 and Windows 10.

Brian


IE11 installation saga

Adrian Spratt
 

Hi. I’ve received several queries off-list about my experience attempting to upgrade from IE10 to IE11. I’m about to describe an immensely frustrating day with no end in sight, but I want to begin by emphasizing that accessibility is not an issue and that you have nothing to lose by trying.

 

So, I start with the good news. I downloaded IE11 via the link I posted earlier. Here it is again:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx

 

I note that Mario provides a link to what may be a different page that intrigues me, but I think in my case I’m way beyond taking advantage of it.

 

In any event, to resume the good story. After downloading IE11, which I did from the “run” rather than the “save” dialog, the program began installation. I’m confident that had it not encountered some as-yet undetermined problem, the installation would have completed fine, my machine would have rebooted, perhaps there would have been a long delay as Windows reconfigured, but ultimately the machine would have returned in good health and with IE11 running.

 

In short, don’t go by the rest of my experience. If IE11 doesn’t install, you lose nothing. IE10 continues to work fine, and your system shouldn’t otherwise be affected.

 

Okay, now for the saga. Kimber was kind enough to post a reminder of the Microsoft Accessibility number, so I called. During the course of two hours, the rep repeated everything I’d done on my own and came to the same point. She added a system check and, although I had some difficulty understanding her (she kept speaking away from the mouthpiece), I believe she also did a repair of IE. The next step, she said, was to run a repair of Windows, and if that failed to reinstall Windows. At that point, I said I’d call my own tech support guy, in whom I have complete faith. Naturally, he’s a busy man and he doesn’t come cheap, but I thought this problem would be routine for MS to fix.

 

Note. The MS Accessibility person failed to disconnect when we hung up, and she also left my system at the administrator level rather than the one I normally use. The only way I found to disconnect was to reboot. My first Microsoft Accessibility experience wasn’t encouraging, but I know many of you have had much better results there.

 

My tech guy repeated the same procedures, but he added at least one. In addition to downloading from what I believe was the same MS webpage I used, he tried installing via Windows Updates. Whereas I’d gone as far as 45%, as did the Microsoft person, he got to 75% before MS sent a message to the effect, “too bad.”

 

I then suggested a system restore. Now here, I have to go back to Wednesday, when the problem started. I’ve been having a problem with certain webpages at my investment broker’s website, and so we set up a tech support session for that day. They made two mistakes, looking back from this vantage point. First, they assured me that IE10 had the same level and duration of support as IE11, which was the only reason I agreed to let them roll my system back to IE10. (they were running IE10 and not experiencing the same problem I had.) As an aside, it was based on that assurance that I posted my optimistic IE10 message here later that day. As we all know now, support for IE10 actually expires next Tuesday.

 

Second, in order to fix a problem that came up (they inadvertently installed IE8 rather than IE10), my investment broker tech guys used a restore point. A restore point prior to Wednesday would have been a potential lifesaver today, but the only ones I have now go back only as far as yesterday.

 

So, big caveat: Don’t trust tech support staff who want to meddle with your system. This has been my longstanding rule, and to the extent I violate it, I try to keep on top of what they’re doing and refuse to let them go ahead if I have any doubts. I trusted these guys.

 

The net result of my experience today, leading into the weekend, is that while downloading went fine from several sources, installation kept failing and no one can figure out why. Five hours on the phone, none of my own work done, and I don’t have a solution.

 


Re: Problem installing IE11

Mike B <mb69mach1@...>
 


Hi Adrian,
 
If you try to install IE11 from a downloaded executable / installer, install it as Administrator.  With installer highlighted press the applications key, arrow down to, Administrator, & press enter.  I don't know if this will work any better than not installing as Administrator but, anything is worth a shot at this point.
Take care.
Mike

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Problem installing IE11

Hi,
Never choose run! Try doing it again, and choose the save as option and save
the install file to your computer. Then, just go to that file on your
computer and press enter and follow the instructions. That will work every
time. Every time I have tried to run a program from the web page, I have run
into the same problems you are having. Have a great one.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kimber Gardner
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 10:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem installing IE11

Hi Adrian,

I don't know how to fix your problem. But what I would do is call the
microsoft help desk for users with disabilities. I've gotten help from
them before and it worked out well. Here's the number if you want to
go that way.

1-800-936-5900

Good luck.

Kimber

On 1/8/16, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@...> wrote:
> In light of MS's abandonment of IE10, I tried to upgrade to IE11 this
> morning. From what I can tell, the process is easy with JAWS so long as
> you
> don't encounter problems. However, I did, and I'm at a loss.
>
> The IE11 download link for Win7-64 bit systems is
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx
>
> In this case, I selected the "run" option, and the download went smoothly.
> However, as installation started, JAWS verbalized something to the effect
> that not all files had previously been installed. (the wording is
> important,
> but I neglected to take a note.) At the halfway point, the installation
> stopped and I was directed to a new trouble-shooting icon on my desktop.
> Clicking on this icon took me to an MS help page. Among other things, the
> page lists a series of files that must be installed before IE11. I went
> through the entire list. Most files were either already on my system or
> weren't appropriate for it, according to the messages I received as I
> initiated each download.
>
> Everything else seemed in order on the trouble-shooting page except for
> one
> item that I don't know how to look into. This is that the video card may
> be
> incompatible. I had IE11 on my system until Wednesday, when a tech support
> guy trying to fix a problem convinced me to roll back to IE10. So, on the
> face of it, my video card should be compatible. However, is it possible
> that
> it has become incompatible since IE11 was initially installed two or three
> years ago? If so, any ideas how I can fix it?
>
> Second question. The only file that wasn't already on my system was not a
> prerequisite, but a recommended option. I installed it, then rebooted my
> PC
> (which, by the way, still didn't solve the IE11 problem). This is the MS
> description on that trouble-shooting page:
>
> Download x64 package for the 64-bit version of Windows
> An update is available for the ASLR feature in Windows 7 or in Windows
> Server 2008 R2       This update introduces the Force ASLR (Address Space
> Layout Randomization) feature. This is an addition to the ASLR feature for
> Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2.
> I have no idea what this feature is or does. Can anyone tell me? should I
> not have installed it?
>
> Sorry for such a long post and complicated query. But perhaps others on
> the
> list will be attempting to install IE11 before next Tuesday, and so any
> answers may help more than one of us.
>


--
Kimberly






Re: Support for Internet Explorer 11 in the Windows 10 Operating System

David Moore
 

Hi,
The installer file can be downloaded to one computer, and you can put that exe file onto a flash drive or any external drive and then run that on another computer. IE 11 works very well with win10, and I am sure that it will be supported for quite a while for win10, because edge is not ready yet. Have a great one.
 
 

Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Support for Internet Explorer 11 in the Windows 10 Operating System
 

It’s been a long time.  Is 11 a download-install, or can it be acquired using one machine, and installed on another?  I wouldn’t mind having it at home, as it seems to work well here.  Right now, I don’t know who my future ISP will be, or when, but I like this Explorer.  Come to think of it, it’ll probably come with the contract.

 

Ted

 

Ted

 

From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:44 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Support for Internet Explorer 11 in the Windows 10 Operating System

 

Great! 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:37 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Support for Internet Explorer 11 in the Windows 10 Operating System

 

The extended support end date currently listed for all of the "flavors" of Windows 10 that run on laptops or desktops is noted as 10/24/2025 on the Microsoft Lifecycle Support Page for Windows 10.

From the Microsoft Lifecycle Support Page for Internet Explorer:

3. How long will the most current version of Internet Explorer remain supported? 
Internet Explorer is a component of the Windows operating system and the most current version will continue to follow the specific support lifecycle policy for the operating system for which it is installed.


Re: Problem installing IE11

David Moore
 

Hi,
Never choose run! Try doing it again, and choose the save as option and save the install file to your computer. Then, just go to that file on your computer and press enter and follow the instructions. That will work every time. Every time I have tried to run a program from the web page, I have run into the same problems you are having. Have a great one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kimber Gardner
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 10:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Problem installing IE11

Hi Adrian,

I don't know how to fix your problem. But what I would do is call the
microsoft help desk for users with disabilities. I've gotten help from
them before and it worked out well. Here's the number if you want to
go that way.

1-800-936-5900

Good luck.

Kimber

On 1/8/16, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@adrianspratt.com> wrote:
In light of MS's abandonment of IE10, I tried to upgrade to IE11 this
morning. From what I can tell, the process is easy with JAWS so long as you
don't encounter problems. However, I did, and I'm at a loss.

The IE11 download link for Win7-64 bit systems is
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx

In this case, I selected the "run" option, and the download went smoothly.
However, as installation started, JAWS verbalized something to the effect
that not all files had previously been installed. (the wording is important,
but I neglected to take a note.) At the halfway point, the installation
stopped and I was directed to a new trouble-shooting icon on my desktop.
Clicking on this icon took me to an MS help page. Among other things, the
page lists a series of files that must be installed before IE11. I went
through the entire list. Most files were either already on my system or
weren't appropriate for it, according to the messages I received as I
initiated each download.

Everything else seemed in order on the trouble-shooting page except for one
item that I don't know how to look into. This is that the video card may be
incompatible. I had IE11 on my system until Wednesday, when a tech support
guy trying to fix a problem convinced me to roll back to IE10. So, on the
face of it, my video card should be compatible. However, is it possible that
it has become incompatible since IE11 was initially installed two or three
years ago? If so, any ideas how I can fix it?

Second question. The only file that wasn't already on my system was not a
prerequisite, but a recommended option. I installed it, then rebooted my PC
(which, by the way, still didn't solve the IE11 problem). This is the MS
description on that trouble-shooting page:

Download x64 package for the 64-bit version of Windows
An update is available for the ASLR feature in Windows 7 or in Windows
Server 2008 R2 This update introduces the Force ASLR (Address Space
Layout Randomization) feature. This is an addition to the ASLR feature for
Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2.
I have no idea what this feature is or does. Can anyone tell me? should I
not have installed it?

Sorry for such a long post and complicated query. But perhaps others on the
list will be attempting to install IE11 before next Tuesday, and so any
answers may help more than one of us.

--
Kimberly


Re: Problem installing IE11

 

Mario,

         I'll be darned if I know what the difference is.

Brian


Re: Problem installing IE11

Mario
 

Brian, there also are checkboxes for developers 64 bit and 32 bit. what is the difference from these and the regular (non developers) options?

On 1/8/2016 3:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Mario,

Thanks, that's definitely useful for anyone who's on Windows
7 and needs to upgrade to IE11. I'm downloading copies of both the
32-bit and 64-bit installers in case the need arises.

Now all Microsoft needs to do is to put the same thing, or
similar, out there for Windows 8 and 10 in case a need to reinstall arises.

Brian


Re: Problem installing IE11

 

Mario,

          Thanks, that's definitely useful for anyone who's on Windows 7 and needs to upgrade to IE11.  I'm downloading copies of both the 32-bit and 64-bit installers in case the need arises.

          Now all Microsoft needs to do is to put the same thing, or similar, out there for Windows 8 and 10 in case a need to reinstall arises.

Brian


Re: MathML and PDF files

Angel
 


If it weren't for Abraham Nemeth's code, higher mathematics and science would be more difficult for totally blind students.  The sad thing is with the new UEB code, either it has been done, or there is talk of ridding us of Nemeth code entirely.  As Britain's don't use it, and it may play havoc with machine translated Braille.  Abraham Nemeth was among the few totally blind students who taught sighted students.  Using among the tools of his trade actual Chalk.  Writing on ordinary black boards.  Which use to be taught to us all, along with the hand writing of print.  I went to school with a totally blind young man, who isn't so young any longer.  In fact, I dare say, he has retired already.  who taught mathematics to sighted students at one of our local high schools.  He began teaching after his University training, and taught at the same school for over 30 years.      

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: MathML and PDF files

Ah yes, the man who  taught us all how to write numbers without number signs; that name takes me back, but  never heard about the man behind the last name.

 

Ted

 

From: Angel [mailto:angel238@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:57 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: MathML and PDF files

 

Abraham Nemeth taught in Detroit for quite a while, also.  He taught sighted students too. 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 5:43 PM

Subject: Re: MathML and PDF files

 

Keep looking. Here’s an example of a blind person who has made a career of mathematics:

https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm12/bm1207/bm120702.htm

 

From: David Moore [mailto:jesusloves1966@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 5:07 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: MathML and PDF files

 

Hi Brian,

I did all you suggest to get my BS in mathematics and my MA in mathematics education at The Ohio State University. However, when it came to finding employment, my interviewers would shut down as soon as they saw that I was blind. Having two degrees did not seem to matter to employers. They still saw me as a helpless person who would cost the company lots of money. It is hard to get through college as a blind person, but that was nothing for me compared to finding a job. I never did find a job teaching mathematics. I worked in a call center, but they closed down. Hardly any are accessible with JAWS. I tutor math on my own. I am about to start my own JAWS tutoring and math tutoring free help for fun. There are so many blind people out there who have never turned on a computer. I am far way blessed than they are. I will offer my services for nothing, because there is so much to do just to get the blind using a computer and then learning JAWS. You may want to pass this information to your students to get them ready for employment after they finish school. Actually, the more you have to do things on your own in college, the better off you will be on a job. There is no Office for Disabilities at IBM or large company. The Office for Disabilities helped me so much when it came to getting my course work in electric format and all of that, but when I began looking for a job, it was a different world. Most interviewers have never heard of the term “accessibility.” You have to explain that there is JAWS, but you sure cannot use that word. I had to say something like there is software that will make your computer talk. Just saying that made most interviewers sigh and say, “Oh My!!!” The first question I got was, “How can you teach math being blind when you cannot see it yourself?” I just have to say that getting through college was a breeze compared to sitting before an interviewer when trying to find a job. Take care, Brian. I would love to do what you are doing. Have a great one.

 

 

Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 8:56 AM

Subject: Re: MathML and PDF files

 

That point about the time frame was well taken.  I took my terminal Degree in May, 1982, when the IBM pc was a new product, and before TI taught PC’s how to talk.  I remember I had 4 written exams in the fall of 1978, before I could spend full-time working on my dissertation.  Each student had 24 hours to complete his exam, my chair gave me 48, as it had to be done twice.  What I wouldn’t have given for my first XT back then.  I was lucky UK understood.

 

Ted

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:03 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: MathML and PDF files

 

Pablo,

         The sad fact is, and I don't say this to be nasty or dismissive but to introduce a reality check, that even with the advances that have been made in accessibility, and there have been many just over the last decade, the world is designed for "the typical" and those with significant disabilities are not "the typical."  This is one of the reasons I try to teach my clients (two of which are, at this time, graduate students) to learn to be their own advocates.  I do not know of a single college student who does not, with pretty much frequency, need to have a sighted reader, particularly for older print material or, as you've found, niche material like mathematical books, etc.  If colleges accept students with disabilities they are expected to provide reasonable accommodations, but very often they have absolutely no idea what that entails.  I have to say that this is not necessarily their fault, either, because students with disabilities are a micro niche and even the disabilities coordinators may be encountering someone with "disability X" or "disability Y" for the first time, ever, and have no idea of what's what.  It is absolutely impossible for any disabilities coordinator to have in-depth knowledge of every disability, or combination of disabilities, they might encounter.  A lot of thinking on one's feet is involved and, very often, taking input from the client as to what they've needed in the past in similar settings.  It's an uphill battle for all involved, including a lot of people who genuinely want to help you.

          If you actually know what you need, and in a situation like this is will probably be a reader, then push to get one.  Once you're in school you will find that "time is of the essence" will take on some real, new meaning even if you are given time accommodations for specific assignments.  You are going to have to figure out what you will require to meet those deadlines and, if it's not already in place, start rattling cages to get it into place as promptly as possible.

          If there is a state department for the blind and visually impaired in your state you would be wise to link up with them for assistance and advocacy.  Even then, you'll still have to sometimes push for what you need.

          I am not trying to be discouraging at all.  You can be a college student and be blind, but your college experience will, by definition, be very different than that of most students and you will need to be thinking about what you need all the time, and trying to anticipate what you might need as your courses change.

          One of the things that's driven me crazy as a JAWS tutor for students is the introduction of web-based course management systems.  These things are great if you can see, and can instantly tell what out of the myriad features your given professor may or may not be using for a given course, but if you can't we know how JAWS reads every blessed thing on a screen, and lots of these screens are chock full of links that aren't used, but remain there as place holders.  I have tried to encourage several local institutions to set up either "sandbox" versions of these systems with fake courses loaded so that those who have to access them with screen readers can have practice, and lots of it, prior to actually needing to use these systems for actual courses (or setting up fake courses in their real systems that they can enroll you in for practice).  The electronic course management system could be an entire semester's class alone, and no one should be trying to learn how to use it while also trying to learn the actual material for a course.

           You can do this, but you will, unquestionably, be working harder to get it done in ways that no one who is not in your situation will ever understand entirely, myself included.

Brian