Date   

Re: classic firefox theme

Gerald Levy
 

So will this add-on make Webvisum work with Firefox 43 without resorting to the work around I have previously posted?

Gerald

-----Original Message-----
From: dennis
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 2:28 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: classic firefox theme

i found this just now and thaught it might fix the wevism problem folks
are having.
I recently installed Firefox 29, which added several new features to the
popular browser.

These are mainly a combination of user interface-related goodies and
stability improvements. For example, users can now enjoy redesigned tabs
and the ability
to customize the front-end by adding more buttons and functions.

firefoxlogo

While these customization options are definitely welcomed, however,
Firefox almost always seems to “break” or change something that didn’t
need to be touched
in the first place.

Firefox 29 Issues

The latest Firefox 29 stops you from performing several, seemingly basic
things that could frustrate those who are picky about their
customization options.

Among these changes include the inability to move the Reload button from
its default place or see the Status Bar the same way you used to.

The Reload button now sits to the right of the Address Bar, while the
Status Bar only shows items when they are installed.

Additionally, it’s important to note that the so-called Status Bar is
now called the Add-on Bar.

The issue with the latter (at least in my case) is the fact that some of
my frequently-used add-ons are not yet compatible with the latest
Firefox version
or its visual overhaul.

Initially, I thought the best way to restore Firefox to its former glory
was to downgrade to a previous version. While this option technically
works, it
is counter-intuitive.

Then I found a Firefox plugin (or add-on) called Classic Theme Restorer.

What Does Classic Theme Restorer Do?

The add-on performs a lot of the things that are shockingly unavailable
in the latest Firefox update. For example, you can move the Reload
button and restore
the old Status Bar (Add-on Bar) to the way it looked before.
Additionally, you can place your tabs toward the very top of the
browser or underneath the
Menu Bar.

Thankfully, all of my favorite features were working again when I
installed Classic Theme Restorer. This includes plugins/add-ons that
were no longer functioning
under the new user interface.

Note that the current Firefox version remains the same; the plugin
merely restores its former visual settings.

How to Install Classic Theme Restorer

Click here
to download Classic Theme Restorer.

Click “Add to Firefox” followed by “Allow” from the subsequent pop-up menu.

theme-restorer-add

theme-restorer-install

Restart the browser when asked, and voila! You are all set with its
installation.

How to Customize Firefox Options

Click the “Tools” menu from the Menu Bar, then click “Classic Theme
Restorer.”

Customize any desired option as you see fit, including browser tab
positioning and the inclusion of the classic Status Bar (again, now
shown as the Add-on
bar.)

theme-restorer-tools-menu

As you can see, every option you modified works like a charm again –
including the return of the classic Status Bar:

theme-restorer-customize-screen

How to Move Firefox Items

Simply click an empty area toward the top of the browser (such as the
empty space next to the Menu Bar) and then click “Customize.” You will
be greeted
with the following screen:

theme-restorer-dialog

Drag and drop any of the available items on the main screen to the top
of your browser. Otherwise, drag and move any existing buttons at the
top and drop
them anywhere you wish.

theme-restorer-customize-screen

I hope this helps anyone looking to move the Firefox Reload button,
restore the classic Menu Bar and any other feature missing from this
latest update.

~ Adrian


Re: Need Steps For Updating Internet Explorer

 
Edited

Bob, 

        Here's how you back up your favorites.  You can also use this method to export them for later importing into a different browser.  I will denote hitting the next button with a hyphen followed by a right angle bracket.  Each step is on its own line.

          File Menu

           Import and Export , , , item

         -> Export to a file radio button

         -> Favorites Checkbox

         -> Select Folder to export from (Favorites already chosen by default)

         -> Where do you want to export your file? (the usual edit box with the folder path & file name, plus a browse button to change the save location)

                     Hit Export button at the bottom of the "Where do you" dialog


You're done.  Just remember where you put them if you ever need them.  It's not a bad idea to do this "just because" every once in a while if your Favorites get modified on a regular basis.

Brian


Re: Amazon's at it again!

Kimber Gardner
 

I do almost all my amazon shopping with the app on my iPhone these
days. It works much better for me than the web site ever did, or at
least since the very early days of amazon when they sold mostly books
and music.

Kimber

On 1/6/16, Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS) <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov> wrote:
Great PR! Makes you want to go right out and buy something, doesn’t it. I
was thinking of calling them, using the customer service number listed in an
earlier message, but I get enough of that foolishness from the people to
whom I’m paid to talk; I don’t need to go looking for it.
Ted

From: Annabelle Susan Morison [mailto:foristnights@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 7:19 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

One thing I find annoying is how Amazon's accessibility website no longer
has a combo box for a dropdown menu that lists all the departments from
which you can search for what you're looking for. Even worse, is that the
search field doesn't appear on the homepage of the Accessibility site. I've
talked to someone over the phone in Customer Service, a couple people
actually, and both of them, with English spoken in heavy accents, told me
that they think I'm lying and that it works just fine. What's going on with
that, I wonder?

________________________________
From: Melissa Stott [mailto:mstott69@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:08 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!
That is very annoying. It even ask you to enter that on their mobile link.
There's not even a link to click on audio.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2015, at 6:14 PM, James Bentley
<bentleyj1952@att.net<mailto:bentleyj1952@att.net>> wrote:
I wonder why Amazon doesn’t use one or more secret questions to verify their
customers. My bank and credit card companies use secret questions and so
far have never presented me with a capsha.

However, I took the advice of another list member and was able to close my
browser and go back in and click on the accesibility link and get signed in
to my Amazon account.

Thanks for all of the different post offering help.

James Bentley


Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:50 PM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

I wonder if it is some kind of antifraud system that only some people end up
triggering? I've found forums online where people have claimed that online
shops randomly deny their order for no apparent good reason that are false
triggerings of such technology. If I ever do get this on Amazon, does it
mean I have to call them up every time I have to place an order?
----- Original Message -----
From: James Bentley<mailto:bentleyj1952@att.net>
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

I’m also having that same issue. There is a link to click on if you are
sight impaired. I tried it. Absolutely no luck with that link for me with
J16 and Win7.

This makes me livid with Amazon. Now I have to take my $323.00, order some
where else and probably pay more.


Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever
do some thing about this BS. Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with
their stupid web site. If some thing is working, why fix it.

James Bentley

From: Rayette Rucker<mailto:ruckerr9@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

I'm having that same issue.
On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:
Hi, everyone!

The same issue I wrote about previously with Amazon is recurring: a captia
required when signing in, making the site entirely impossible to use. Does
anyone have a phone # for Amazon so I can try to resolve this—AGAIN?
Thanks!



Sandra
“To love another person is to see the face of God.”
(Les Miserables--the musical)
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--

Check out my blog

www.angellic23.wordpress.com<http://www.angellic23.wordpress.com>

--
Kimberly


classic firefox theme

dennis
 

i found this just now and thaught it might fix the wevism problem folks are having.
I recently installed Firefox 29, which added several new features to the popular browser.

These are mainly a combination of user interface-related goodies and stability improvements. For example, users can now enjoy redesigned tabs and the ability
to customize the front-end by adding more buttons and functions.

firefoxlogo

While these customization options are definitely welcomed, however, Firefox almost always seems to “break” or change something that didn’t need to be touched
in the first place.

Firefox 29 Issues

The latest Firefox 29 stops you from performing several, seemingly basic things that could frustrate those who are picky about their customization options.

Among these changes include the inability to move the Reload button from its default place or see the Status Bar the same way you used to.

The Reload button now sits to the right of the Address Bar, while the Status Bar only shows items when they are installed.

Additionally, it’s important to note that the so-called Status Bar is now called the Add-on Bar.

The issue with the latter (at least in my case) is the fact that some of my frequently-used add-ons are not yet compatible with the latest Firefox version
or its visual overhaul.

Initially, I thought the best way to restore Firefox to its former glory was to downgrade to a previous version. While this option technically works, it
is counter-intuitive.

Then I found a Firefox plugin (or add-on) called Classic Theme Restorer.

What Does Classic Theme Restorer Do?

The add-on performs a lot of the things that are shockingly unavailable in the latest Firefox update. For example, you can move the Reload button and restore
the old Status Bar (Add-on Bar) to the way it looked before. Additionally, you can place your tabs toward the very top of the browser or underneath the
Menu Bar.

Thankfully, all of my favorite features were working again when I installed Classic Theme Restorer. This includes plugins/add-ons that were no longer functioning
under the new user interface.

Note that the current Firefox version remains the same; the plugin merely restores its former visual settings.

How to Install Classic Theme Restorer

Click here
to download Classic Theme Restorer.

Click “Add to Firefox” followed by “Allow” from the subsequent pop-up menu.

theme-restorer-add

theme-restorer-install

Restart the browser when asked, and voila! You are all set with its installation.

How to Customize Firefox Options

Click the “Tools” menu from the Menu Bar, then click “Classic Theme Restorer.”

Customize any desired option as you see fit, including browser tab positioning and the inclusion of the classic Status Bar (again, now shown as the Add-on
bar.)

theme-restorer-tools-menu

As you can see, every option you modified works like a charm again – including the return of the classic Status Bar:

theme-restorer-customize-screen

How to Move Firefox Items

Simply click an empty area toward the top of the browser (such as the empty space next to the Menu Bar) and then click “Customize.” You will be greeted
with the following screen:

theme-restorer-dialog

Drag and drop any of the available items on the main screen to the top of your browser. Otherwise, drag and move any existing buttons at the top and drop
them anywhere you wish.

theme-restorer-customize-screen

I hope this helps anyone looking to move the Firefox Reload button, restore the classic Menu Bar and any other feature missing from this latest update.

~ Adrian


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Don’t sweat it.  Half the time I call a folder a directory.

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 9:26 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Adrian,

        Your comment about "false enhancement" rings true, at least in a way, even to me.  I can't tell you how many times I've had a client land in an edit field, where that's not where I want (or they want) to be and I've succumbed to saying something along the lines of, "We're looking for a button, so hit 'B' and that will take you to the first button on the screen."  Unfortunately, when you're in auto forms mode, of course it doesn't do that and interprets the 'B' as you typing the letter B.  

         Am I correct in my assumption that if the auto feature is turned off, you will still get the announcement that you are indeed in an edit field (or what have you), but you must hit a single Enter, which switches you in to forms mode and that all typed characters after that will be entered into the edit field, which you then have to hit Num Pad Plus to shift out of forms mode and back to navigation mode?  Gads, but that's a long-winded question that I don't quite know how to rephrase!!

      As an unrelated aside, oldster that I am I still sometimes refer to enter as  return, and I warn my clients that if they hear me say return I mean enter.  I guess for anyone who ever used an electric typewriter this definitely makes sense.   Thank heavens my really old computer geek doesn't come out where I would say CR LF, which is short for carriage return line feed!

Brian


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
 

Sorry, sir to get off track there.

Cindy Lou Ray

 

 

From: James Homuth [mailto:james@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 12:41 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

 

Folks, this thread is starting to wander off into the weeds in places and some of you are in danger of a personal conversation with me. You know who you are. Everyone take a step back, breathe, and bring this thing back on track, or I'll have to close it down.

 

James,

List Admin

 


From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: January-06-16 1:13 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Gerald,

         How is it that you can make the statement regarding WebVisum, "trying to keep up with Mozilla’s constant updates and changes to Firefox," and know that Firefox is but one of the things JAWS interacts with, and also ask, "Is FS really trying to keep up with changes in technology with each successive release of JAWS?"

If FS didn't introduce a single new feature on JAWS for the rest of its production life, they would still be, "trying to keep up with changes in technology with each successive release of JAWS."  And I'm no apologist for Freedom Scientific, either; it's a simple matter of two plus two equals four.

Brian


Re: Need Steps For Updating Internet Explorer

Onwardbob
 

HI, just how do you backup "favorites"? W-7, IE, and J-17

BOB SOUTAR…ONWARD THRU THE FOG

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Behler [mailto:tombehler@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:43 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Steps For Updating Internet Explorer

Thanks for these steps, Brian, and yes, I’ll be sure to back up my favorites before I do anything.



I haven’t done the favorites backup for a while, but believe I have instructions here.



I, like many others, am getting less and less dependent on internet explorer, and prefer Firefox as my main browser, but want to have IE available at least as a second alternative if nothing else.



Dr. Tom Behler





From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:30 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Steps For Updating Internet Explorer



Tom,

Given your concern about your favorites, and even though I believe these are preserved as part of a version update, you should back them up first. Presuing that Microsoft hasn't changed the menu structure (I only have IE11) you do this via the File menu, import and export option.

Next you will go to the Microsoft page for Internet Explorer Download <http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/download-ie> . The page is automatically set up to check your system for the version you have and to present you with the download button for the latest version that will run on your system. If memory serves, clicking that button will initiate the entire update process, which I'm sure includes download, dialog boxes once the upgrade starts, etc.

IE11, like most browsers these days, does not display the menu bar by default. Presuming you want that back on a permanent basis. Hit Alt to bring up the menu bar for temporary display. Under the View menu choose the Toolbars item and then check Menu Bar in the sidebar of items that comes up when you have chosen menu bar.

I hope this is enough to at least let you take a swing at this. I've done this upgrade many times but I haven't done it in a while and I loathe Internet Explorer, so I don't use it or do this on a routine enough basis to remember each and every tiny step in the actual upgrade process itself.

Brian


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

The much-discussed VLC Media Player is one program that really puts those right clicks to good use, particularly in full-screen mode. I know it's hardly in the same category as a work program, but you can access all the dropdown menus that way.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Campbell [mailto:lucky1@ct.metrocast.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 9:09 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

David, I think that the fact that you saw till you were 15 makes a big difference, in comparison to someone who has never seen, . Just my opinion.


.


On 12/31/2015 7:56 PM, David Moore wrote:
Hi,
I totally agree with you. The right click is just as important as the
left click. You can do so much with what you are focused on, by right
clicking. I think that the blind should know the sighted way and the
screen reader way. I try to understand as much as possible how a sighted
person would do what I am doing with key commands, because I think it
helps to learn the concepts. I visual things a lot though, because I had
sight until I was 15. Maybe that makes a difference, I don’t know. I
would love to do what you do. Have a great New Year.
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 1:12 PM
*To:* jfw@groups.io <mailto:jfw@groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users"
or people who've used both here?

Kevin,

Thanks for your input. I just want to hasten to add that my
motivation for "forcing" the occasional use of the mouse buttons is not,
in any way, because I think that any given method is the "right" one,
but sometimes there really is a "best" one.

A number of my clients have expressed utter amazement when I
teach them about the presence of the context menu that pops up anywhere
(pretty much) when you right click on anything that can be operated on
in some way and that this menu restricts you to the actual things you
can do to that actual object. It saves so much menu arrow-through time
(and I'm amazed how many of my clients cling to using arrow-through even
after they know the "you can type the first letter of the function
you're searching for to speed your way down the menu" technique). It
also avoids, almost entirely, the presence of stippled-out options that
cannot be selected at the moment because they do not fit the actual
context of the moment, but must be in a general-purpose full menu anyway.

All of the above having been said, if anyone detects what they
feel is even the slightest whiff of condescension or trying to "force
blind people to do something the sighted way" in my posts or
descriptions of how I tutor, please let me know about this directly, but
kindly. That is absolutely never my intention, but unintentional
paternalism, rudeness, or slights are as bad or worse than intentional
ones. Just realize that any of these are occurring out of ignorance,
not malice.

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

James Malone
 

On that note, Microsoft also has Captchas on their Skype page when installing Skype for the first time. I find this annoying, especially when I work with others trying to install the program.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 8:23 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And suppose an online seller like Amazon does not offer an accessible alternative to image captcha? Is Jeff Bezos going to be prosecuted? Of course not. So major online sellers can simply disregard legal agreements with almost total impunity and get away with it because they are essentially weak and unenforceable.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:55 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Actually, I've read some legal agreements involving online sellers that address the CAPTCHA issue and require an accessible alternative in the event the company insists on retaining CAPTCHA. I wish I could go into more detail, but the agreements with which I'm familiar are confidential.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point.
They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
 

Jonathan also explained patiently how you can turn it off altogether or for specific sites. I rather like it myself. I think that FS is truly trying to keep up with the ever-changing demands myself. I can understand how hard this is; my ex-husband, Dr. Hallenbeck, wrote ProVox, and I know it is a dinosaur, but it did point out how you have to work to keep up with ever-changing demands. I got a new notebook vcomputer once and it didn't work using his software so I had to use another screen reading program. He worked zealously to make his software work with that computer and ssucceedeed, but it wasn't an immediate thing by any means.
Cindy Lou Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 12:03 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


Is FS really trying to keep up with changes in technology with each successive release of JAWS? Or are they merely trying to maximize profits by introducing features of dubious value to justify charging for SMA updates? A perfect example is JAWS 17 which introduced "smart" navigation?
Except for Jonathan Mosen, who is a paid pitchman for FS, have you seen anyone else rave about how indespensible this feature is?

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 12:46 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

This is precisely why, although I complain about the problems with JAWS, I can also understand the challenge of FS trying to keep up with the never-ending changes in technology.


On 1/6/2016 11:39 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Gerald Levy wrote: "And do you know why the developers of Webvisum
abandoned it? Because they finally got sick and tired of trying to
keep up with Mozilla’s constant updates and changes to Firefox."

And if you're not prepared to keep up with the pace demanded in
today's programming world it is best that you abandon it. (That's one
of the reasons I did.)

All currently available major web browsers have almost continuous
release schedules. That's not going to change, either, so anyone who
wishes to remain a player on that field is either going to adapt or die.

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

James Malone
 

Hi, I heard that Fire Fox did away with this a long time ago. Is this true?

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:55 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Actually, I've read some legal agreements involving online sellers that address the CAPTCHA issue and require an accessible alternative in the event the company insists on retaining CAPTCHA. I wish I could go into more detail, but the agreements with which I'm familiar are confidential.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the
blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best
interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers
who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with
image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by
identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system
but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about
captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend
their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their
on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal
people's address books and try to extort money from their family and
friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human
and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in
srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some
captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back
character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that
we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once
compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example,
requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change
account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to
log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point.
They want something that requires subjective, human perception to
understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could
translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a
voicemail message.

-Kane


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Cindy Ray <cindyray@...>
 

I think it is unreasonable to say "Because the suits don't work immediately, they aren't worth the effort." It's like saying I'm going to go ahead and litter the beach because I'm just one person and no one else cares.
I also would say about technology that we do have the right to equality in software/gadgets, etc. It has improved; it really has. In the past the stuff we ended up with was throw offs from the makers of machines as they developed new equipment. We have always been playing catch up. People have lost jobs over these issues; people have been in line for promotions that they did not get because of inaccessibility. So I do think we have every right/need to shout our demands loudly and clearly. I know a guy now who was trying to get a promotion; the company really wanted to give it to him. So far the only thing that has held it back is inaccessibility.
Cindy Lou Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Angel [mailto:angel238@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 11:32 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

How effective are suits? We still don't have tactile currency. We spent lots of money, most blind people can well not afford to cause the treasury
to make the currency tactily accessible. It isn't yet accessible. So, if
suits are to take place. How long will it take for the positive effects to occur.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


Well, of course the NFB picketed Amazon over Kindle's issues, and some of that effort led to accessibility in the iPhone App, which isn't enough. I don't doubt that this day might come sometime, but money and time are required. That investment was good with regard to Target, and maybe one day the same can be said of Amazon.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Campbell [mailto:lucky1@ct.metrocast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 10:31 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

The only way might be for the NFB to sue, as they did Target.


On 1/6/2016 10:23 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

And suppose an online seller like Amazon does not offer an accessible
alternative to image captcha? Is Jeff Bezos going to be prosecuted?
Of course not. So major online sellers can simply disregard legal
agreements with almost total impunity and get away with it because
they are essentially weak and unenforceable.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 10:55 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Actually, I've read some legal agreements involving online sellers
that address the CAPTCHA issue and require an accessible alternative
in the event the company insists on retaining CAPTCHA. I wish I could
go into more detail, but the agreements with which I'm familiar are
confidential.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Levy [mailto:bwaylimited@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:35 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?


And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the
blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best
interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online
sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted
alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious
at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human
by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed
up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about
captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who
spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their
information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity.
We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money
from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image
so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting
on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a
human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would
create the captias so we could read them back character by character
problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious.
Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen,
once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example,
requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to
change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive
task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole
point.
They want something that requires subjective, human perception to
understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could
translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does
with a voicemail message.

-Kane
























--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

I Presume you prepare all your own course material.  Due to security problems in my old department, I started going whole hog after I acquired my first computer back in ‘86—creating my own material, and printing the requisite number of copies of everything from tests to syllabi.  In fact, I changed up tests from term to term, so the old copies would be worthless.

 

Ted

 

From: Tom Behler [mailto:tombehler@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 4:26 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

 

Brian:

 

The documents in question were copies of some of my course syllabi and initial class handout materials.  And, trust me, no part of them was in Spanish!!  (smile)

 

What might have triggered the Catalan designation by Jaws is still a mystery to me, although I do wonder if it had something to do with a particular font style or something similar.

 

The catalan designation was spoken for various headings throughout the documents, and went away when I unchecked the language detect change option in MS Word.

 

I’m using Windows 7, Office 2010, and Jaws 16 here.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler

 

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 1:22 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

 

Tom, just for my curiosity, do you have any idea what JAWS was detecting that it thought was in the Catalan dialect of Spanish?   This seems really odd since my presumption is that the documents in question are not in any form of Spanish (and on that I could be entirely wrong).

Brian


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

There is something to be said for user-specific training.  I remember a course we took some years ago, teaching us how to use our current MMIS system.  This is a complex, multi-layer, multi-option system, and the instructor was Hell-bent that we were going to learn it all in one day—whether we needed it or not.  I subsequently learned that the interface was pretty consistent across all the tasks, so, if yu learn one, you can learn many, but this shotgun approach slowed down the training a good bit.  The trainer was oblivious to what we said we needed.  Perhaps a middle approach is called for.  A good trainer will probably know how to assess various clients and situations.

\

Ted

 

From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 2:43 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Brian,

 

I agree, it’s essential that JAWS users know about the right-mouse click option. Usually, the choices that come up in that menu are identical to those you obtain by pressing the applications key, but not always. Once in a while, the right-mouse click menu provides the only solution to an accessibility problem.

 

Separately, I have done some informal JAWS training, and I partially disagree with the idea that a trainer should focus only on those issues a client wants resolved. Even if a client lists a set of tasks they would like to learn, it’s still important to establish a degree of JAWS familiarity. Once established, you can build from that foundation so that the client learns not only the keystrokes for a specific task, but also how to solve similar problems as they arise going forward. It’s the old saying that goes something like you can give someone a fish or you can teach them how to fish.

 

I haven’t followed these threads in any detail, but I notice your seeming perplexity about forms mode. I take it you understand that this is a JAWS device to solve the problem that JAWS users can’t just land on an edit field and type. Forms mode enables the user to make it possible to type when you land on an edit field.

 

Finally, while it’s no doubt useful to be able to see a screen to see why certain JAWS problems might be occurring, I would think it’s essential for a trainer to learn to listen to JAWS as it performs.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 1:12 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Kevin,

        Thanks for your input.   I just want to hasten to add that my motivation for "forcing" the occasional use of the mouse buttons is not, in any way, because I think that any given method is the "right" one, but sometimes there really is a "best" one.

        A number of my clients have expressed utter amazement when I teach them about the presence of the context menu that pops up anywhere (pretty much) when you right click on anything that can be operated on in some way and that this menu restricts you to the actual things you can do to that actual object.  It saves so much menu arrow-through time (and I'm amazed how many of my clients cling to using arrow-through even after they know the "you can type the first letter of the function you're searching for to speed your way down the menu" technique).  It also avoids, almost entirely, the presence of stippled-out options that cannot be selected at the moment because they do not fit the actual context of the moment, but must be in a general-purpose full menu anyway.

        All of the above having been said, if anyone detects what they feel is even the slightest whiff of condescension or trying to "force blind people to do something the sighted way" in my posts or descriptions of how I tutor, please let me know about this directly, but kindly.   That is absolutely never my intention, but unintentional paternalism, rudeness, or slights are as bad or worse than intentional ones.   Just realize that any of these are occurring out of ignorance, not malice.

Brian


Re: Need Steps For Updating Internet Explorer

Tom Behler
 

Thanks for these steps, Brian, and yes, I’ll be sure to back up my favorites before I do anything.

 

I haven’t done the favorites backup for a while, but believe I have instructions here.

 

I, like many others, am getting less and less dependent on internet explorer, and prefer Firefox as my main browser, but want to have IE available at least as a second alternative if nothing else.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:30 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Need Steps For Updating Internet Explorer

 

Tom,

            Given your concern about your favorites, and even though I believe these are preserved as part of a version update, you should back them up first.  Presuing that Microsoft hasn't changed the menu structure (I only have IE11) you do this via the File menu, import and export option.

             Next you will go to the Microsoft page for Internet Explorer Download.  The page is automatically set up to check your system for the version you have and to present you with the download button for the latest version that will run on your system.  If memory serves, clicking that button will initiate the entire update process, which I'm sure includes download, dialog boxes once the upgrade starts, etc.

             IE11, like most browsers these days, does not display the menu bar by default.  Presuming you want that back on a permanent basis.  Hit Alt to bring up the menu bar for temporary display.  Under the View menu choose the Toolbars item and then check Menu Bar in the sidebar of items that comes up when you have chosen menu bar.

             I hope this is enough to at least let you take a swing at this.  I've done this upgrade many times but I haven't done it in a while and I loathe Internet Explorer, so I don't use it or do this on a routine enough basis to remember each and every tiny step in the actual upgrade process itself.

Brian


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

James Homuth
 

Folks, this thread is starting to wander off into the weeds in places and some of you are in danger of a personal conversation with me. You know who you are. Everyone take a step back, breathe, and bring this thing back on track, or I'll have to close it down.
 
James,
List Admin


From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: January-06-16 1:13 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

Gerald,

         How is it that you can make the statement regarding WebVisum, "trying to keep up with Mozilla’s constant updates and changes to Firefox," and know that Firefox is but one of the things JAWS interacts with, and also ask, "Is FS really trying to keep up with changes in technology with each successive release of JAWS?"

If FS didn't introduce a single new feature on JAWS for the rest of its production life, they would still be, "trying to keep up with changes in technology with each successive release of JAWS."  And I'm no apologist for Freedom Scientific, either; it's a simple matter of two plus two equals four.

Brian


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

The biggest stability issue I’ve found with 16 is working with Silverlight.  Remember, this interface was totally unusable prior to 16, so direct comparisons are impossible.  My current platform is a 64-bit Win7 PRO machine, with IE 11.  I have a few network issues to overcome, but am curious to see if any or all the upgrades from my last platform (32-bit, IE 10) make a difference.

 

Ted

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:39 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Ongoing thanks to all who are so generously contributing their personal perspectives to this thread!  The response is more than I ever could have hoped for when I made the initial post.

A quick observation from me, since I've worked with both JAWS 15 and 16 recently enough to make an assessment:  Both have been pretty stable and behaved substantially the same for "the old functions" they share.  I have not yet dealt with JAWS 17, so have to withhold any opinion until I do, and that's coming soon.

I just posted at some length regarding Windows 10 on the NVDA/WindowEyes/JAWS thread I started this morning.


keypass 2.3 and jaws

Stan Holdeman
 

Windows 7 and jaws 16    I am presently using keypass 2.29. I seem to remember that there was an accessibility issue when updating to v.2.3.. Can someone enlighten me about this?
 
Thanks,  Stan
 


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

 

cecropia64,

           There really is not anything they can do about the visual element of Captchas unless technology advances a lot in very short order.  If you work at all with PDF files, and specifically those scanned as images without OCR, the visual element of a Captcha is essentially the same.  It is intentionally not machine readable and the text is distorted such that most people can hazard a guess that's accurate enough to pass if they have sight.

           I guess they could recognize the presence of a Captcha, tell you it's there, and set you up for listening to the recording, and that's only if it's a real Captcha.  The imitations don't even bother with audio.

           This problem will likely be resolved as reCaptchas, which have no "type in the characters" visual element, come into wider use.  Google was big in the development of reCaptcha and so my hopes that accessibility was a design consideration from the get-go are high.

Brian


Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

cecropia64
 

One thing I did was to contact Freedom Scientific about the captcha problem. Will they do anything about it? Doubtful but one can only hope they will.

On 1/6/2016 9:35 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

And the reason this situation exists in the first place is that the blindness advocacy groups which are supposed to look out for our best interests have shown absolutely no willingness to challenge online sellers who insist on confronting their customers, blind and sighted alike, with image captchas whose value at thwarting hackers is dubious at best.

Gerald



-----Original Message----- From: judith bron
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:18 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

And the only people excluded from making the statement they're human by identifying a captia are the blind. Sounds like a totally messed up system but we're still captive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Ray [mailto:cindyray@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 8:42 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

No, it isn't proof enough maybe, but it is one of the stones to barriers. There is no such thing as 100% safe.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: judith bron [mailto:jbron@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

I have been following this thread and still the question I have about captias for ages is still not answered. We have criminal minds who spend their time messing up people's lives by hacking their information via their on line accounts and stealing their identity. We have folks who steal people's address books and try to extort money from their family and friends. We are supposed to recognize an image so we can prove we're human and not robots. What can someone sitting on the other end of a computer in srilanka know about my status as a human being if I can tell him what some captia reads? If they would create the captias so we could read them back character by character problem solved, but that isn't proof enough that we're not devious. Judith

-----Original Message-----
From: Kane Brolin [mailto:kbrolin65@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: What is the issue with Captchas?

It will be a while before CAPTCHAs are stopped. This might happen, once compatibility with mobile browsing becomes a universal standard.
But the provider of online info related to my Visa card, for example, requires me to verify a CAPTCHA every time I sign in. Not just to change account settings or to do some other specialized or sensitive task--just to log in to check my points!

The muddy/hard-to-understand nature of the audio CAPTCHA is the whole point. They want something that requires subjective, human perception to understand--not just a clear voice-print that dictation software could translate automatically into text in the way that Grasshopper does with a voicemail message.

-Kane