Date   

Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Adrian Spratt
 

Brian,

 

I agree, it’s essential that JAWS users know about the right-mouse click option. Usually, the choices that come up in that menu are identical to those you obtain by pressing the applications key, but not always. Once in a while, the right-mouse click menu provides the only solution to an accessibility problem.

 

Separately, I have done some informal JAWS training, and I partially disagree with the idea that a trainer should focus only on those issues a client wants resolved. Even if a client lists a set of tasks they would like to learn, it’s still important to establish a degree of JAWS familiarity. Once established, you can build from that foundation so that the client learns not only the keystrokes for a specific task, but also how to solve similar problems as they arise going forward. It’s the old saying that goes something like you can give someone a fish or you can teach them how to fish.

 

I haven’t followed these threads in any detail, but I notice your seeming perplexity about forms mode. I take it you understand that this is a JAWS device to solve the problem that JAWS users can’t just land on an edit field and type. Forms mode enables the user to make it possible to type when you land on an edit field.

 

Finally, while it’s no doubt useful to be able to see a screen to see why certain JAWS problems might be occurring, I would think it’s essential for a trainer to learn to listen to JAWS as it performs.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 1:12 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Kevin,

        Thanks for your input.   I just want to hasten to add that my motivation for "forcing" the occasional use of the mouse buttons is not, in any way, because I think that any given method is the "right" one, but sometimes there really is a "best" one.

        A number of my clients have expressed utter amazement when I teach them about the presence of the context menu that pops up anywhere (pretty much) when you right click on anything that can be operated on in some way and that this menu restricts you to the actual things you can do to that actual object.  It saves so much menu arrow-through time (and I'm amazed how many of my clients cling to using arrow-through even after they know the "you can type the first letter of the function you're searching for to speed your way down the menu" technique).  It also avoids, almost entirely, the presence of stippled-out options that cannot be selected at the moment because they do not fit the actual context of the moment, but must be in a general-purpose full menu anyway.

        All of the above having been said, if anyone detects what they feel is even the slightest whiff of condescension or trying to "force blind people to do something the sighted way" in my posts or descriptions of how I tutor, please let me know about this directly, but kindly.   That is absolutely never my intention, but unintentional paternalism, rudeness, or slights are as bad or worse than intentional ones.   Just realize that any of these are occurring out of ignorance, not malice.

Brian


Re: Catalan Problem Solved

 

Adrian,

          But wouldn't you think that JAWS would be coded to be smart enough to use context to recognize whether something was simply misspelled versus jumping on the "it's in another language" bandwagon?   Since English is one of the worst "stealers of words" and absorbing them into the language unchanged from their original spellings, it would be mighty dangerous to use anything like a single word for a language detection function.

Brian


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Maria Campbell
 

Brian, I'm so glad to see you teach your clients to use the menus, rather than just teaching the short cut keys to get around. An unfortunate friend of mine was only taught short cut keys. In my humble opinion that limits the possibilities/options one encounters when exploring the menus, rather than just being exposed to the very specific actions of shortcut keys. Continual use of an application eventually and naturally does result in the memorization of shortcut keys anyway.
I pretty much have taught myself how to use the PC, listening to, and reading anything I can get my hands on, as long as it isn't too technical for my understanding.

On 12/31/2015 12:12 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Kevin,

Thanks for your input. I just want to hasten to add that my
motivation for "forcing" the occasional use of the mouse buttons is not,
in any way, because I think that any given method is the "right" one,
but sometimes there really is a "best" one.

A number of my clients have expressed utter amazement when I
teach them about the presence of the context menu that pops up anywhere
(pretty much) when you right click on anything that can be operated on
in some way and that this menu restricts you to the actual things you
can do to that actual object. It saves so much menu arrow-through time
(and I'm amazed how many of my clients cling to using arrow-through even
after they know the "you can type the first letter of the function
you're searching for to speed your way down the menu" technique). It
also avoids, almost entirely, the presence of stippled-out options that
cannot be selected at the moment because they do not fit the actual
context of the moment, but must be in a general-purpose full menu anyway.

All of the above having been said, if anyone detects what they
feel is even the slightest whiff of condescension or trying to "force
blind people to do something the sighted way" in my posts or
descriptions of how I tutor, please let me know about this directly, but
kindly. That is absolutely never my intention, but unintentional
paternalism, rudeness, or slights are as bad or worse than intentional
ones. Just realize that any of these are occurring out of ignorance,
not malice.

Brian

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@ct.metrocast.net

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.


Re: Catalan Problem Solved

Adrian Spratt
 

The behavior isn’t so odd. You would think something like this would happen that any time you misspell an English word so that it comes out as a foreign word. For example, if you wrote “and” with a u instead of an a, you’d have the German word “und.” Presumably, language detection would pick up on that. What surprises me is that it doesn’t happen more often.

 

I’ve changed the subject line to the correct spelling of the language spoken in Barcelona.

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 1:22 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

 

Tom, just for my curiosity, do you have any idea what JAWS was detecting that it thought was in the Catalan dialect of Spanish?   This seems really odd since my presumption is that the documents in question are not in any form of Spanish (and on that I could be entirely wrong).

Brian


Re: JAWS-accessible list of UEB changes

Ann Byrne
 

National Braille press has a document, for free, listing the changes.

At 01:13 PM 12/31/2015, you wrote:
Hello Adrian,
I did receive a braille paper copy of all the changes from the CNIB library; perhaps a check with your local braille library may prove fruitful.
Happy New Year,
Kevin.

From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com]
Sent: December-31-15 3:01 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: JAWS-accessible list of UEB changes

I've just tried to find information via Google about the changes to braille that I understand go into effect in 2016, but I encountered all kinds of problems accessing the documents with JAWS. In some cases, the information must be presented as diagrams, rather than, for example, listing specific dot configurations. In other cases, unbelievably, organizations for assisting visually impaired people presented the details in PDF files that came up as "empty documents" and that Convenient OCR couldn't convert.

I don't have a braille device connected to my PC, so a braille file won't help.

Can anyone direct me to online resources that lists the changes in screenreader-accessible form?

Thanks.


Re: Can someone please tell me whether there are jaws scripts for kendle for pc!

Mich Verrier
 

there are no jaws scripts for kindle for pc. the program works with out scripts since any books that say text to speech inabled you will be able to read wtih kindle for pc since it has a text to speech engion. from Mich.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 2:22 PM
Subject: Can someone please tell me whether there are jaws scripts for kendle for pc!

Hi list members I’m using jaws 16 and I’d like to know for sure if there are jaws scripts for kindle for pc?  Where can I find them and how much are they if there is a cost associated with them?  I can be reached at dingram269@....  I am using windows 7 professional 64 bit on an amd processor.  Thank you for any information that you might have.


Can someone please tell me whether there are jaws scripts for kendle for pc!

David Ingram
 

Hi list members I’m using jaws 16 and I’d like to know for sure if there are jaws scripts for kindle for pc?  Where can I find them and how much are they if there is a cost associated with them?  I can be reached at dingram269@....  I am using windows 7 professional 64 bit on an amd processor.  Thank you for any information that you might have.


Re: JAWS-accessible list of UEB changes

Kevin Hourigan <kevinthourigan@...>
 

Hello Adrian,

I did receive a braille paper copy of all the changes from the CNIB library; perhaps a check with your local braille library may prove fruitful.

Happy New Year,

Kevin.

 

From: Adrian Spratt [mailto:Adrian@...]
Sent: December-31-15 3:01 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: JAWS-accessible list of UEB changes

 

I’ve just tried to find information via Google about the changes to braille that I understand go into effect in 2016, but I encountered all kinds of problems accessing the documents with JAWS. In some cases, the information must be presented as diagrams, rather than, for example, listing specific dot configurations. In other cases, unbelievably, organizations for assisting visually impaired people presented the details in PDF files that came up as “empty documents” and that Convenient OCR couldn’t convert.

 

I don’t have a braille device connected to my PC, so a braille file won’t help.

 

Can anyone direct me to online resources that lists the changes in screenreader-accessible form?

 

Thanks.


Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

 

Tom, just for my curiosity, do you have any idea what JAWS was detecting that it thought was in the Catalan dialect of Spanish?   This seems really odd since my presumption is that the documents in question are not in any form of Spanish (and on that I could be entirely wrong).

Brian


Re: Google Drive/Docs

 

David,

          For my edification, what is "focus mode," exactly?   I don't think I've ever heard that term used and I have no idea what that means.  Of course, I had no idea what Forms Mode meant, either, since it's been in "On by Default" mode in all the versions of JAWS I've touched over the last several years, but actually knew how to use it thinking what I was doing was using the Quick Navigation Keys (since a great many overlap).

          Thanks in advance.

Brian


Re: Google drive/docs

 

Sally,

         I hope that Google has coded this webpage with accessibility in mind (and I know I'm not David, too), but try this Google Support page entitled, Keyboard Shortcuts for Google Drive on the Web.


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Kevin,

        Thanks for your input.   I just want to hasten to add that my motivation for "forcing" the occasional use of the mouse buttons is not, in any way, because I think that any given method is the "right" one, but sometimes there really is a "best" one.

        A number of my clients have expressed utter amazement when I teach them about the presence of the context menu that pops up anywhere (pretty much) when you right click on anything that can be operated on in some way and that this menu restricts you to the actual things you can do to that actual object.  It saves so much menu arrow-through time (and I'm amazed how many of my clients cling to using arrow-through even after they know the "you can type the first letter of the function you're searching for to speed your way down the menu" technique).  It also avoids, almost entirely, the presence of stippled-out options that cannot be selected at the moment because they do not fit the actual context of the moment, but must be in a general-purpose full menu anyway.

        All of the above having been said, if anyone detects what they feel is even the slightest whiff of condescension or trying to "force blind people to do something the sighted way" in my posts or descriptions of how I tutor, please let me know about this directly, but kindly.   That is absolutely never my intention, but unintentional paternalism, rudeness, or slights are as bad or worse than intentional ones.   Just realize that any of these are occurring out of ignorance, not malice.

Brian


Re: JAWS-accessible list of UEB changes

Dave Mitchell
 

Sorry Members, delete this as the note below is for Adrian.
Adrian, my provider has your account in what they call their ‘white list’ as an authorized e mail correspondent and things are operating normally for me as far as I can determine.
Happy New Year to all, Mitch
 

Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 4:01 AM
Subject: JAWS-accessible list of UEB changes
 

I’ve just tried to find information via Google about the changes to braille that I understand go into effect in 2016, but I encountered all kinds of problems accessing the documents with JAWS. In some cases, the information must be presented as diagrams, rather than, for example, listing specific dot configurations. In other cases, unbelievably, organizations for assisting visually impaired people presented the details in PDF files that came up as “empty documents” and that Convenient OCR couldn’t convert.

 

I don’t have a braille device connected to my PC, so a braille file won’t help.

 

Can anyone direct me to online resources that lists the changes in screenreader-accessible form?

 

Thanks.


Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

Ann Byrne
 

Hurray! The strange thing is that I had a hard time finding the language detect change item. It wasn't in the places where I thought it should be. Glad it solved the problem.

At 10:18 AM 12/31/2015, you wrote:
Ann:

Your suggested strategy worked to get rid of my Catalan problem.

Thanks so much!

It was really annoying to hear this in many document headings.

I'll save these steps for future reference.

For those who need them, the steps from Ann are below.

Tom Behler




-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Byrne [mailto:annakb@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:28 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Catelyn

While in Word Try
1. insert+v, quick settings.
2. type 'lang' and arrow down to language detect change.
Be sure it is unchecked.







Re: Catalyn Problem Solved

Tom Behler
 

Ann:

Your suggested strategy worked to get rid of my Catalan problem.

Thanks so much!

It was really annoying to hear this in many document headings.

I'll save these steps for future reference.

For those who need them, the steps from Ann are below.

Tom Behler

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Byrne [mailto:annakb@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:28 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Catelyn

While in Word Try
1. insert+v, quick settings.
2. type 'lang' and arrow down to language detect change.
Be sure it is unchecked.


Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

Kevin Hourigan <kevinthourigan@...>
 

Hello Brien,

I use Jaws because that is what I started with and know, but I am hearing that some VIPs prefer NVDA, particularly for web navigation, and their numbers are growing.

As to your experiences with mouse functions ; I personally have enjoyed very little success with any keystroke replacements for mouse functions. You may wish to consider that this is an entirely different world. While we need to interact with sighted people, we are doing it in a completely different atmosphere.

Happy New year!

Kevin.

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: December-30-15 12:45 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?

 

Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond.

The main thing I'm trying to do for myself is to get a bit better grip on "what's what" as far as web browsing goes.  I frequently use INS+F6, list headings, and INS+F7, list links, with my clients as well as the Navigation Quick Keys.  I have never had a good grasp (or I don't think I do, anyway) regarding Forms Mode, Table Navigation, or PlaceMarkers (though the concept for the last one is very clear to me).  When you can see it's not nearly so necessary to know the actual structures within HTML that JAWS and other screen readers rely upon to make your navigation of these pages as quick and painless as possible, and I sometimes think that I'm going "around Jake's barn" with regard to web browsers and JAWS because don't have a clear grasp of the above nor Frames or Elements.

The whole JAWS Cursor versus PC Cursor is utterly maddening to me because JAWS focus can switch without a corresponding visual move of the information displayed such that it can, for instance, be on a radio button that's not visible on the screen to me, which can make, no pun intended, getting on the same page as my client more than a bit of a challenge.  I also wish I had more practice with using the mouse functions without actually using the mouse (although I admit I encourage my clients to use the physical left and right click buttons on the mouse pad on a laptop because they can be easily distinguished via tactile means - I just create a permanent mask over the mousing area itself so that it does not interfere with pointer movement or accidental click activation).

If either NVDA or WindowEyes is substantially the same in its handling of these things at least I could get some sense of what might happen in a session as far as possible or probable trouble spots beforehand.   Heaven knows I've got enough experience to be able to think on my feet and consult the keystrokes document at relatively high speed, but sometimes a bit of actual practice would probably help me.

One of the really tricky things, but one I'm used to, is that there is virtually no sense in even thinking about something as structured as a lesson plan with the clients I work with.  Most of the time by the time I'm called in they have a long list of "things I need to be able to do, some tomorrow and many yesterday" that I just walk through with them based on their prioritization of same.  This is nothing like teaching a formal class and there are always the bugs one finds in JAWS (with some frequency) and/or technical support issues that unmask themselves as part of the whole process.

I really love this work and always want to find ways that I can improve my service delivery.

Brian, who still has to "shut JAWS up" when short bursts of really intensive work show up that I really need to do that are unrelated to the client's JAWS goals - I doubt I'll ever get entirely comfortable with the endless narration!


Re: Google drive/docs

Sally Hagarty
 

David, could you post a list of keyboard shortcuts that work with Google docs ?


Re: a new member

douglas richard dexheimer
 

blank email?

Douglas Richard Dexheimer
Chief of Braille Productions
Born-Again Productions
The Friedman Place, Apt.308
5527 N. Maplewood Ave.
Chicago, IL 60625
cell phone 913-244-0612
drichardd@earthlink.net

On 12/31/2015 3:20 AM, Angela Stone wrote:


Sent from my iPhone

On 31 Dec 2015, at 00:01, Melissa Stott <mstott69@verizon.net> wrote:

Welcome to our group. I'm sure you will learn quite a lot

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2015, at 6:38 PM, karim sidi <karimsidi4@gmail.com> wrote:

hi I am very happy for you joining in the list you will be a gret new
prason in list thank you

karim thank you argen for bing whit as

On 12/30/15, Elise Berkley <bravaegf@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hello, Amit. Welcome to the list. I am also a new member, but I have been

helped in so many areas already. The people are friendly, and very helpful.

I love it because they will not give up helping until you get the help you
need. Again, welcome and hope to talk again.
Elise Berkley, Long Beach, California

--
Karim Sidi
karimsidi4@gmail.com
skype:karimsidi2

mobile no.0724678181


Re: Amazon's at it again!

Annabelle Susan Morison
 


1-866-216-1072.



From: Pablo Morales [mailto:pablocmd2014@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:48 AM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

What is the amazon customer service phone number?

 

 

From: Annabelle Susan Morison [mailto:foristnights@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 7:19 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

One thing I find annoying is how Amazon's accessibility website no longer has a combo box for a dropdown menu that lists all the departments from which you can search for what you're looking for. Even worse, is that the search field doesn't appear on the homepage of the Accessibility site. I've talked to someone over the phone in Customer Service, a couple people actually, and both of them, with English spoken in heavy accents, told me that they think I'm lying and that it works just fine. What's going on with that, I wonder?

 


From: Melissa Stott [mailto:mstott69@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:08 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

That is very annoying. It even ask you to enter that on their mobile link. There's not even a link to click on audio.

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 30, 2015, at 6:14 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:

I wonder why Amazon doesn’t use one or more secret questions to verify their customers.  My bank and credit card companies use secret questions and so far have never presented me with a capsha.

 

However, I took the advice of another list member and was able to close my browser and go back in and click on the accesibility link and get signed in to my Amazon account.

 

Thanks for all of the different post offering help.

 

James Bentley

 

 

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:50 PM

Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

I wonder if it is some kind of antifraud system that only some people end up triggering? I've found forums online where people have claimed that online shops randomly deny their order for no apparent good reason that are false triggerings of such technology. If I ever do get this on Amazon, does it mean I have to call them up every time I have to place an order?

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

I’m also having that same issue.  There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired.  I tried it.  Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7.

 

This makes me livid with Amazon.  Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more.

 

 

Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS.  Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site.  If some thing is working, why fix it.

 

James Bentley

 

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM

Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

I'm having that same issue.

On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:

Hi, everyone!

 

The same issue I wrote about previously with Amazon is recurring: a captia required when signing in, making the site entirely impossible to use. Does anyone have a phone # for Amazon so I can try to resolve this—AGAIN? Thanks!

 

 

 

Sandra
“To love another person is to see the face of God.”
(Les Miserables--the musical)

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Re: Amazon's at it again!

Bill White <billwhite92701@...>
 


Hi, Pablo. The phone number most often given for Amazon.com, Customer Service is:
 

866-216-1072

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

What is the amazon customer service phone number?

 

 

From: Annabelle Susan Morison [mailto:foristnights@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 7:19 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

One thing I find annoying is how Amazon's accessibility website no longer has a combo box for a dropdown menu that lists all the departments from which you can search for what you're looking for. Even worse, is that the search field doesn't appear on the homepage of the Accessibility site. I've talked to someone over the phone in Customer Service, a couple people actually, and both of them, with English spoken in heavy accents, told me that they think I'm lying and that it works just fine. What's going on with that, I wonder?

 


From: Melissa Stott [mailto:mstott69@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:08 PM
To: jfw@groups.io
Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

That is very annoying. It even ask you to enter that on their mobile link. There's not even a link to click on audio.

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 30, 2015, at 6:14 PM, James Bentley <bentleyj1952@...> wrote:

I wonder why Amazon doesn’t use one or more secret questions to verify their customers.  My bank and credit card companies use secret questions and so far have never presented me with a capsha.

 

However, I took the advice of another list member and was able to close my browser and go back in and click on the accesibility link and get signed in to my Amazon account.

 

Thanks for all of the different post offering help.

 

James Bentley

 

 

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:50 PM

Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

I wonder if it is some kind of antifraud system that only some people end up triggering? I've found forums online where people have claimed that online shops randomly deny their order for no apparent good reason that are false triggerings of such technology. If I ever do get this on Amazon, does it mean I have to call them up every time I have to place an order?

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

I’m also having that same issue.  There is a link to click on if you are sight impaired.  I tried it.  Absolutely no luck with that link for me with J16 and Win7.

 

This makes me livid with Amazon.  Now I have to take my $323.00, order some where else and probably pay more.

 

 

Why doesn’t this make some one like the NFB or ACB or Congress or who ever do some thing about this BS.  Why can’t Amazon just stop tinkering with their stupid web site.  If some thing is working, why fix it.

 

James Bentley

 

Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:57 PM

Subject: Re: Amazon's at it again!

 

I'm having that same issue.

On 12/30/2015 2:50 PM, Sandra Streeter wrote:

Hi, everyone!

 

The same issue I wrote about previously with Amazon is recurring: a captia required when signing in, making the site entirely impossible to use. Does anyone have a phone # for Amazon so I can try to resolve this—AGAIN? Thanks!

 

 

 

Sandra
“To love another person is to see the face of God.”
(Les Miserables--the musical)

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