On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I think we need a whole lot more data points before we can make that
assumption.

But it's a start.

Now we should throw away 10% to 20% of the quantity due to death and those
who decided to stop purchasing updates. In fact, that may be conservative.

But it's a start.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 16:17
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Okay, thanks Cristobal,

Given your 50k around 2000, and my 427k later in the decade I would
say that comfortably gives us a total user population of somewhere
around .5M at the high end (assuming that all SN come from the same
series, that say government contracts don't have some different pile -
I am a self-purchaser of jaws personally).

On 10/2/12, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com> wrote:

No, I started using jaws during the transition period between jfw8 and
9. I have had several SMAs in the meantime as well as purchasing the
remote access option, but my SN has not changed.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it
may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per
version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use
JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring
computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based
on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick
Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a
sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS
users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the
list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw mailing list
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 16:17
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Okay, thanks Cristobal,

Given your 50k around 2000, and my 427k later in the decade I would
say that comfortably gives us a total user population of somewhere
around .5M at the high end (assuming that all SN come from the same
series, that say government contracts don't have some different pile -
I am a self-purchaser of jaws personally).

On 10/2/12, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com> wrote:

No, I started using jaws during the transition period between jfw8 and
9. I have had several SMAs in the meantime as well as purchasing the
remote access option, but my SN has not changed.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it
may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per
version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use
JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring
computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: Morey Worthington
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:38 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

I might throw a little monkey in your reasoning. My serial number
starts with 20---, but I started with version 3.2. HTH
Moss


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

On 10/2/12, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com> wrote:

No, I started using jaws during the transition period between jfw8 and
9. I have had several SMAs in the meantime as well as purchasing the
remote access option, but my SN has not changed.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it
may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per
version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use
JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring
computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may

be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,

and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:24 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may
be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,
and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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02/0e0ebc12/attachment.html>

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

Good idea. Mine is 35xxx and I purchased back in version 3.5. However it may
be that a new purchase serial number maintains the first digits as the
version in force at the time. My 35xxx aligns with version 3.5. Was your
first version 4.2?

IF this is the scheme, then FS allowed for up to 1000 new users per version,
and might change the serial prefix with each new version. We'd have to
collect a fair number of serial numbers to be sure of this.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 15:02
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


Well, we could make a guess by serial numbers.

My jaws serial number is about 427400 and I purchased jaws in late
2007 if memory serves.

I am pretty sure FS does in fact use incremental SN, not some odd
pattern with lots of holes. If we had someone who is a very recent
purchaser we could get an idea about both the overall population as
well as how fast it is growing.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon Pierson
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:30 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Freedom Scientific Petition

Hi,
When the site and petition are finally up, a good healthy, but respectful
email signature with a pointer in that direction could gin up quite a bit of
support.
Then a few well-placed stories in the media about the issue should be taken
seriously if the number of signatories is great enough.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:08 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition

Don't forget the power of social media in all this. All of us with facebook
and twitter have a number of jaws user friends on the respective platforms
and in turn they are connected to more jaws users so I think the message can
be spread quite far and won't be limited to a few mailing lists.

On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Ed,

As alluded before, I suspect that no one except the various national
governments have any idea how many blind people there are, and only FS
will

know how many active customers they have. Either data will likely be
impossible to get due to laws covering privacy.

So a suggestion is to pick a number like 100. That may be more than
the number of people on this list, but I'm guessing less than the
total number of users on the 5 lists to which I currently subscribe.
And of course there

are lists to which I don't .

See what other substantive suggestions you get, and then pick a number
that

at least shows a strong mandate.

Can't help with an alternate web site, sorry.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 08:45
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition


All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up

goal.

I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that
should

sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping
with

the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all
blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people
that is? What

would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although
this is

JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions
again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to

screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than
intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site

for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE> Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A
TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL
REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.
-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...
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On 10/2/12, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Nope, and no idea.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
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Thank you.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Logue" <bobcat11@telusplanet.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:45
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific Petition


I wonder if FS would release the number of licences or users they have
sold. Do we know how many Jaws users there are?

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@tamfs.org>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 14:26
Subject: JAWS as percentage of Screen Reader Use


Hi All,
I was the one who incorrectly provided the number of visually impaired
persons who use JAWS as their primary screen reader as 2/3rds. That number
was taken from a WEB AIM survey from 2009.
The same survey conducted in 2012 shows that number slipping to just under
half. However, of the remaining screen readers, the next highest percentage
is just 12%.
Here's the 2012 survey.
http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple
of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up goal.
I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that should
sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping with
the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all blind
persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people that is? What
would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although this is
JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes to
screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than intuitive
prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most accessible public
petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list perhaps know of a site
for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to
accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in
some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to
do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 13:41
Subject: Re: Petition A Waste


Our reaction wasn't to the idea of blind programmers developing the
next screen reader. That's a good idea. I won't speak for Dave
Carlson, but my reaction was to you personally Peter. I'm sorry
you didn't take it as such.




At 04:15 PM 10/2/2012, you wrote:

Good afternoon everyone,

God only knows where we would be if Ted Henter, Doug Laller
and others
expressed such an attitude.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Petition A Waste

To that I say -- Har`rumph!

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a

Dell

Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2@satx.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:21
Subject: Petition A Waste


Hello everyone,

Yup the same resources that could be put to better use

assembling

programmers to develop a newer and innovative screen reading

product

giving
the blind community another choice when selecting a screen

reader. It was

blind programmers that conceived and developed the current crop

of screen

reading products now available to us. It will take an equally

ambitious

group of blind programmers to develop even better screen access

products

in
the future. This is a far better use of time and brain power

than a stupid

petition.

Peter Donahue


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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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On 10/2/2012 12:44 PM, PHILLIP TRACY wrote:

Alright Peter, then get to developing my friend. Most of us are not developers.

Phillip Tracy
Sent from my iPhone.

On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:22 PM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2@satx.rr.com> wrote:

Hello everyone,

Yup the same resources that could be put to better use assembling
programmers to develop a newer and innovative screen reading product giving
the blind community another choice when selecting a screen reader. It was
blind programmers that conceived and developed the current crop of screen
reading products now available to us. It will take an equally ambitious
group of blind programmers to develop even better screen access products in
the future. This is a far better use of time and brain power than a stupid
petition.

Peter Donahue


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

On 10/2/2012 10:24 AM, Gerald Levy wrote:

There is absolutely no way that two thirds of all blind people use JAWS.
There are an estimated 1.2 million people in the US classified as
legally blind, but only a small fraction, perhaps less than 10% use
computers with screen readers. The overwhelming majority of blind
people do not use computers, so the actual number of JAWS users is
probably quite small. Also, an estimated 70% of blind people are
unemployed, so they would have little or no means of acquiring computers
or commercial screen readers. And the vast majority of JAWS users do
not belong to this or other blind-tech related mailing lists, so they
would have no way of learning about the petition. FS keeps the number
of JAWS customers a closely guarded secret, so nobody really knows how
many blind people are actually using it. But if I had to venture a
guess, I would say that the number of JAWS users might be somewhere
between 50,000 and 150,000, but this is only a wild guess not based on
any facts or evidence.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a
couple of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up
goal. I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users
that should sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of
those helping with the drafting of the petition has information that
two thirds of all blind persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea
how many people that is? What would be a reasonable percentage of
signers to expect? Looking for suggestions here. I'm happy to accept
responses off-line. Although this is JAWS-related, I don't want to
spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it
comes to screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less
than intuitive prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most
accessible public petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list
perhaps know of a site for a public petition that is better and/or
more accessible than is Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried
to accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even
though, in some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually
started to do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before
Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:45 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Freedom Scientific Petition

All:
As promised, I am about to put the Freedom Scientific "Gimmick Feature
Moratorium" petition up on the Internet. Before doing so, I have a couple
of questions:

1. The Change.org petition form suggests (perhaps requires) a sign-up goal.
I'd be interested in suggestions as to the number of JAWS users that should
sign such a petition to be considered a success. One of those helping with
the drafting of the petition has information that two thirds of all blind
persons use JAWS. Does anyone have any idea how many people that is? What
would be a reasonable percentage of signers to expect? Looking for
suggestions here. I'm happy to accept responses off-line. Although this is
JAWS-related, I don't want to spark a flurry of off-topic discussions again.
2. Change.org is, to my way of thinking, a little awkward when it comes to
screen reader usage. It isn't bad, but there are some less than intuitive
prompts. I would like this petition to be on the most accessible public
petition Website possible. Would anyone on the list perhaps know of a site
for a public petition that is better and/or more accessible than is
Change.org?
Thanks to the off-line support and drafting assistance. We've tried to
accommodate the views expressed on this list and elsewhere even though, in
some instances, the interests were not always congruent.
In the petition, we have not cited specific issues. I actually started to
do that, but I wanted to get the petition up before Christmas. <SMILE>
Thanks for all your help!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.
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On 10/2/12, Stephanie Switzer <emmanrusty@gmail.com> wrote:

Russell:
I've set Jaws so that it uses eloquence in microsoft word. Because
that is the program where I need to edit things... usually. It seems
stupid, but it works, and I'm able to catch the errors in my papers
easier then if I just left it as realspeak like I did with everything
else. I don't know if you can do this in versions of Jaws that older
than 12. You should be able to, but that doesn't mean anything. lol.
:) I'm not sure what your trying to fix or edit, but I hope this helps
you. :)

On 10/2/12, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@adrianspratt.com> wrote:

Nuance's principal customer base is not visually impaired people, so it
will
assume that they can see capitalization for themselves. I suggest that
all
of you experiencing this limitation contact FS to urge them to ask Nuance
to
incorporate this capability into its software.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Guido
Corona
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:19 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Capital letter indication with vocalizer voices

Russell, I have no information about FS plans, nor Nuance plans for
Vocalizer. However, I have the suspicion that the lack of pitch control
may
be a Nuance implementation limitation rather than a JAWS flaw.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:57 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Capital letter indication with vocalizer voices

I hope you're not telling me that this is not going to be fixed? Knowing
whether or not a letter is in upper case is extremely important
information,
especially in a work situation. Is there a setting to have Jaws say
"Capital" on an uppercase letter then, if pitch change isn't available?

Thanks,

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-10-01, at 8:15 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@gmail.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, the current implementation of Vocalizer for JAWS 14
does not appear to support pitch changes. G.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 5:25 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Capital letter indication with vocalizer voices

Hi all,

I'm really beginning to like the new vocalizer voices. Is there a way
to have the pitch change when on an upper case letter? I'm using
Samantha, and there's no way to tell if a letter is upper case. Is
this a bug? Anyone else noticing this?

Thanks,

Russell

Sent from my iPhone

On 2012-10-01, at 12:46 PM, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:

Hi folks.

Have any of you tried using the 4sync application, part of the
4shared.com

service with Jaws?

It's quite similar to Dropbox, but so far, I haven't managed to enter
my

account details in the 4sync application. I was able to successfully
create an account on the Website 4shared.com though.

The account tab inside 4sync seems inaccessible, but maybe I'm
missing

something obvious.

I'm hoping someone has gotten further with this than I have, since
the

space and bandwidth available on this service are substantial.

Any tips folks?

thanks,

Chris

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