Date   

Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Dave...
 

Ted,

Did you know that "NT" actually stood for "Nice Try"? Or was that "Not
Tested"? Can't recall, exactly.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:54
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?


You'd better know it. Our shop is so conservative that an OS is almost
off the market before we adopt it. We missed Vista altogether, and
thank goodness for that. In the past 16 years, we've used 3.11, 95, NT,
XP (NT with a facelift)and now 7.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Keen
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:04 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Hi,

Eeven most large companies don't upgrade to every OS as it comes out,
there are still companies out there using xp and vista. To do so would
pose a programming and logistics nightmare.



Shawn



----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?


I think the product cycle for 7 was too short, especially given
Microsoft's recent track record of one good OS, followed by one dog.
The jury is out on 8, but I've read some strong opinions pro and conn.
Gone are the days when you could sit out a DOS 4, while awaiting
something good. OEM agreements guarantee healthy sales, no matter how
bad it is.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy
Selfridge
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

This is true but continuing to keep up with the Jones sure gets
expensive.
If you have to upgrade in order to communicate with your work
environment that is one thing but if you keep upgrading just to be on
the cutting edge then that is, IMO, foolish and you have more money
than
I do. (LOLLOLLOL) We are now looking at W8 and I just got used to W7.
The comment by FS that the solution was to go to JAWS 14 and W8 was,
IMO, idiot advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar
Carlson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:06 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

"I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7."

So was I. but I've learned to work with the ribbons and get on with
evolution. The ribbons aren't going away, and there's just a point
when
fighting upstream becomes more time-consuming than just learning.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 08:56
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7.
It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on
Windows
7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

You'd better know it. Our shop is so conservative that an OS is almost
off the market before we adopt it. We missed Vista altogether, and
thank goodness for that. In the past 16 years, we've used 3.11, 95, NT,
XP (NT with a facelift)and now 7.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Keen
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:04 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Hi,

Eeven most large companies don't upgrade to every OS as it comes out,
there are still companies out there using xp and vista. To do so would
pose a programming and logistics nightmare.



Shawn



----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?


I think the product cycle for 7 was too short, especially given
Microsoft's recent track record of one good OS, followed by one dog.
The jury is out on 8, but I've read some strong opinions pro and conn.
Gone are the days when you could sit out a DOS 4, while awaiting
something good. OEM agreements guarantee healthy sales, no matter how
bad it is.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy
Selfridge
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

This is true but continuing to keep up with the Jones sure gets
expensive.
If you have to upgrade in order to communicate with your work
environment that is one thing but if you keep upgrading just to be on
the cutting edge then that is, IMO, foolish and you have more money
than
I do. (LOLLOLLOL) We are now looking at W8 and I just got used to W7.
The comment by FS that the solution was to go to JAWS 14 and W8 was,
IMO, idiot advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar
Carlson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:06 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

"I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7."

So was I. but I've learned to work with the ribbons and get on with
evolution. The ribbons aren't going away, and there's just a point
when
fighting upstream becomes more time-consuming than just learning.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 08:56
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7.
It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on
Windows
7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Workbooth

dave grossoehme
 

I'm questioning if anyone has used the application mentioned above. I wish
to apply for a job with a company who has this application listed. Which
means that would have to make sure that Jaws will work with it.

Your Friend Dave

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Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Shawn Keen <shawn.keen@...>
 

Hi,

Eeven most large companies don't upgrade to every OS as it comes out, there are still companies out there using xp and vista. To do so would pose a programming and logistics nightmare.



Shawn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?


I think the product cycle for 7 was too short, especially given
Microsoft's recent track record of one good OS, followed by one dog.
The jury is out on 8, but I've read some strong opinions pro and conn.
Gone are the days when you could sit out a DOS 4, while awaiting
something good. OEM agreements guarantee healthy sales, no matter how
bad it is.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy
Selfridge
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

This is true but continuing to keep up with the Jones sure gets
expensive.
If you have to upgrade in order to communicate with your work
environment that is one thing but if you keep upgrading just to be on
the cutting edge then that is, IMO, foolish and you have more money than
I do. (LOLLOLLOL) We are now looking at W8 and I just got used to W7.
The comment by FS that the solution was to go to JAWS 14 and W8 was,
IMO, idiot advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar
Carlson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:06 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

"I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7."

So was I. but I've learned to work with the ribbons and get on with
evolution. The ribbons aren't going away, and there's just a point when
fighting upstream becomes more time-consuming than just learning.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 08:56
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7. It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows
7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

I think the product cycle for 7 was too short, especially given
Microsoft's recent track record of one good OS, followed by one dog.
The jury is out on 8, but I've read some strong opinions pro and conn.
Gone are the days when you could sit out a DOS 4, while awaiting
something good. OEM agreements guarantee healthy sales, no matter how
bad it is.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy
Selfridge
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:42 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

This is true but continuing to keep up with the Jones sure gets
expensive.
If you have to upgrade in order to communicate with your work
environment that is one thing but if you keep upgrading just to be on
the cutting edge then that is, IMO, foolish and you have more money than
I do. (LOLLOLLOL) We are now looking at W8 and I just got used to W7.
The comment by FS that the solution was to go to JAWS 14 and W8 was,
IMO, idiot advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar
Carlson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:06 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

"I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7."

So was I. but I've learned to work with the ribbons and get on with
evolution. The ribbons aren't going away, and there's just a point when
fighting upstream becomes more time-consuming than just learning.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 08:56
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7. It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with
W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows
7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mix Office versions?

Cy Selfridge
 

This is true but continuing to keep up with the Jones sure gets expensive.
If you have to upgrade in order to communicate with your work environment
that is one thing but if you keep upgrading just to be on the cutting edge
then that is, IMO, foolish and you have more money than I do. (LOLLOLLOL)
We are now looking at W8 and I just got used to W7.
The comment by FS that the solution was to go to JAWS 14 and W8 was, IMO,
idiot advice.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:06 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

"I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with W7."

So was I. but I've learned to work with the ribbons and get on with
evolution. The ribbons aren't going away, and there's just a point when
fighting upstream becomes more time-consuming than just learning.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 08:56
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7. It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows 7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
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Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Dave...
 

"I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with W7."

So was I. but I've learned to work with the ribbons and get on with
evolution. The ribbons aren't going away, and there's just a point when
fighting upstream becomes more time-consuming than just learning.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 08:56
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7. It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows 7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Cy Selfridge
 

You know, I wish I had known that one coule use Office 2003 with W7. It
would have saved me quite a bit of money. (sad face)
I was told (a couple of years ago) that I had to use Office 2007 with W7.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jon Pierson
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:49 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows 7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and havethe Student version of
Office 10 which has Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Dennis Clark <dennisgclark@...>
 

Hello John,
I'm pleased to hear that you have it working. In May 2011 when my office had to switch to Windows 7, I spent a lot of money paying for our computer consultant to try to get it working on our computers and he could not. I then purchased Office 2010 for our systems which I do not like because of the ribbons. At that time he found numerous articles discussing that Outlook 2003 was not reliable running under Windows 7, but who knows why. Clearly you have it working and we could not get it working after a lot of ours spent. We use AT&T internet services, which for us means we are using SMTP and Pop3, and that may be a possible factor. We are also using Windows 7 64 bit, so that may also be an issue. Regardless, it is clear that you and another person on this list have it working, but many others have not had your success. If the original poster has the time to experiment, then it can't hurt to try.
Best,
Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows 7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and
havethe Student version of Office 10 which has
Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Jon Pierson <joncpierson@...>
 

Hi,
It does, I am writing with it right now under Win7.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:48 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?

Hello,
I was afraid that might be the case. Outlook 2003 won't work on Windows 7.
What problem are you trying to solve by doing this?
Dennis


----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am using Windows 7.
I have found a version ofOutlook 2003 and
havethe Student version of Office 10 which has
Word, Access 10 and Excel but no Outlook 10.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hello Which version of Windows are you using? Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: solving Outlook problem; can one mixOffice versions?


Hi,
I am considering installing Outlook 2003 onto my computer.
Next I will install Acces 10, Word 10 and Excel 10.

Why should that not work?

Thanks.
Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
 

Hey, that currency thing would be enough to tempt me. The only other
gadget I know that can do that costs around $100 and can do nothing
else. I guess most hand scanners can do it, but how handy are they?
For me, I guess it would come down to how much more I can afford to
spend over and above the two-line plan I have right now, and that's
between the carrier and me.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Amen, a voice of reason! Please folks, if you've never used an
iPhone/iPad don't be so quick to judge. They are great devices and, not
just for fooling around on, but, as Cristobal pointed out, for aiding
with many daily tasks.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-24, at 3:30 PM, Cristobal <crismunoz54@gmail.com> wrote:

I have four separate email accounts on my iPad (one personal and 3
business), Google Voice and Skype for textign and making calls, note
taking apps, video and audio recording capabilities apps for reading
of books be it in mp3, daisy, ebooks, etc. Other accessibility related
apps include Learning Ally, NFB Newsline color identification apps
(though not the best with an iPad, can work in a pinch) and so on. Not
to mention everything else one can do with the tablet that is
impossible with just a note taker by itself for example. When I was
doing my homework on whether to get the Apex, I was talking to a rep
about it and even though it was their job to talk up the product,
their arguements just didn't convince me. Yes, those types of
blindness targetted devices may have in some aspects more designs and
features taylored to a visually impaired user, but the idea of
dropping nearly $6,000.00 on something just because it has a braille
display built into it did not convince me in the least. Everything the
Apex had, the iPad already came with or I could find an app to get
that particular feature and more often than not, the app was simply
better.

Having the tablet frees me from being tied to my computer in many
instances.
The iPhone too is a great example of a swiss army knife of accessible
goodness. All the apps mentioned above and with a better camera makes
other apps like money identification, color identification, scanning
text to speech, taking photos of canned or boxed items and tagging
them with a voice lable for later reference, barcode reader, GPS and
so on.

Again, even if one were to purchase just the phone unlocked at $800.00
or so for a larger model, that's a lot less than what it would cost to
buy all the various accessible gizmos to replicate similar actions.
I'm completely blind so all the low vision stuff is irrelevent to me,
but for partially sighted folks, the iPad (especially the newest
model) can be used with its camera as a cctv along with all the other
magnification features it's got built into it. So, again, for $800.00
for a larger storage iPad, iPod or iPhone for that matter, how is that
not a great deal and why wouldn't state agencies consider such
devices? Numbers don't lie. These devices are in many instances a
solid replacement for a bundle of all those other things at much less
of an overall cost.

I'm glad my acquaintance was able to get what he wanted and not get
talked into a crazy priced note taker which is basically a stripped
down netbook with braille display just because of whatever cosy
relationship vendors may have with agencies.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:17 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


So exactly what do you use your IPad for? If you use it to store
notes and contacts, this can be accomplished far more cheaply by a
simple Olympus digital recorder. If you already have a computer at
work or home, then it seems to me that an IPad is superfluous.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cristobal" <crismunoz54@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Not so fast... I have an acquaintance who through his state agency
obtained an iPad and Bluetooth keyboard instead of a traditional note
taker. I think he also received a Braille display (I don't know which
model) and if memory serves, everything came out cheaper than the
note taker would have.
Earlier this year, I too was considering buying an Apex from
Humanware and after testing it out, I was more sold on the
flexibility of the iPad. With
a
keyboard instead of the Apex. I also bought a 40 cell display.
Everything in my circumstance came out to a third of the cost than
the Apex would have.
Even if I were to throw in my iPhone in an unlocked scenario (I'm
actually on contract), the cost for the tablet, keyboard, display and
phone is still less than the note taker. When my acquaintance asked
me for my opinion when he was working with his case manager, I
commented to him my experience and he pitched it to his rep and low
and behold... He received what he requested.

It's true that tablets aren't yet replacements for computers, but in
my opinion anyway, note takers for the blind can't hold a candle to
accessible tablets or accessible smart phones anymore. Especially
when you factor in the cost of all devices. That's not even taking
into consideration the various accessibility related apps that can
often replace the function of a blindness oriented gadget.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:30 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


To be perfectly honest, purchasing I-devices by blind rehab agencies
for clients is an outrageous waste of taxpayer money, as these
agencies are largely funded by state commissions for the blind. No
I-device can ever completely replace a computer. They are designed
to be mobile devices, not devices that can be used in a typical work
environment. They don't even have tactile keyboards just
touchscreens, so it is physically impossible to type on them as fast
as you can on a standard , full size keyboard. Can you compose and
print documents or read your mail with an IPad? Of course not.
But, you say, you can send and receive text messages better with an
IPad than with a computer. But why should a blind agency pay for
such a device when you can accomplish the same thing with a
telephone? And please don't tell me about all those "cool" apps
available for the IPad and IPhone. To me, the I-devices are little
more than overpriced status symbols whose functionality can be
duplicated by cheaper devices.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
Actually it may never happen in some places, but MN is doing some
serious training and providing iDevices in many situations.
I know of a person in CA who's already started teaching people on
both platforms as well. The iPad is also being purchased by a lot of
schools for LD students who (in the old days) might have used a
PC-based system such as
K3000 or Magic.
So the times, they are a'changin'.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:26 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major
blind rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as
an alternative to Windows computers for their clients. Why?
Because it would mean that their technology trainers would have to
be familiar with two totally different operating systems, program
sets and keyboard commands. Plus, the rehab center would have to
purchase and maintain two totally incompatible groups of hardware.
That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies simply don't
have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients for jobs
in the business world which relies heavily on Windows computers, not
Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology trainer at the
rehab center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to learn how to
use a Mac , I would have to do it on my own. This particular agency
has had a long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all
their hardware from them. So naturally, their clients only receive
training on Windows machines. To their credit, they did offer me a
choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I was
totally unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm still
glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users
who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the
purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is buying
computer equipment for blind
folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac,
for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand
per computer,
they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue
source (fill in agency names here) and recommend that they support
another competing product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be
willing to sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone
to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of
customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non
petitioner, to sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for
such assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable,
bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs left or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you
suggest for persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy
a screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
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Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18

Adrian Spratt
 

Douglas, if someone can't be bothered to make sure the reply isn't at the
top of a message, why not ignore it? Sometimes a reply accidentally gets
moved down, but it's for that lister to realize and re-post. We all have
more important things to do with our time than figure out what others don't
think is important enough to communicate effectively.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Douglas
Richard Dexheimer
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:40 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18

Where's the new reply? All I can find is the long thread of earlier
messages.

Douglas Richard Dexheimer
Chief of Braille Productions
Born-Again Productions
The Friedman Place, Apt.308
5527 N. Maplewood Ave.
Chicago, IL 60625
773-901-7306
cell 913-244-0612
drichardd@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Turner" <doogiepower@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


On 9/24/12, jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com <jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com>
wrote:
Send Jfw mailing list submissions to
jfw@lists.the-jdh.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
jfw-owner@lists.the-jdh.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Jfw digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
2. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
3. SMA: Their Value? (Farfar Carlson)
4. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
5. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
6. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
7. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)
8. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
9. Re: SMA: Their Value? (Graham Smith)
10. Re: A Modest Proposal (David Ingram)
11. RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14 (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
12. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
13. RE: Jaws 13 with XP (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
14. Re: A Modest Proposal (Soronel Haetir)
15. RE: Replying to sender instead of the list. (Adrian Spratt)
16. RE: Room For One More (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
17. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
18. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
19. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
20. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
21. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gerald Levy)
22. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
23. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:57:17 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5FDE6995-480A-4FE3-9DF9-ACE253E9FBA6@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but
they
still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible
stuff.
I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few
ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the
product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the
market
works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh,
I
though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by
the
cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think
of
it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been
a
customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of
all
these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of
all
the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is
something
that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak
in
the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts
that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product.
I
should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to
fix
a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done,
and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date:
09/23/12

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:58:23 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <64e3aa$afnmjo@fipsb01.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:01:51 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <2FC2F8B0C8414D00A7E7CC361B9E02F9@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems
and

web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for

them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as
it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been
about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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-----
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Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

-----
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:07 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <45D7CD34661B4D709ECBB3AE3FD494D5@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good point -- in a nutshell, if we all were to stop purchasing JAWS and
stick with our current version, FS would notice in about a year that
something was wrong. However on our list, do we represent more than 5% of
the user community? I think not. so our voice would likely not make much
of

a sound. A petition across all user communities and lists, and
International

in scope would d be needed to have a more significant effect.

Then we all sit back and wait to see when FS wakes up.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:57
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but
they

still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible
stuff.

I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few
ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the
product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the
market

works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh,
I

though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by
the

cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think
of

it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been
a

customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of
all

these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of
all

the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is
something

that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak
in

the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts

that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product.
I

should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to
fix

a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs

left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done,
and

I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:52 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <51874C2BF06D4E4FA5AFC28C9BD9C375@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:06:49 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <CE49C0B6-0758-44A7-8D6A-182C91BB57FD@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them.
Would't
it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful
when
used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective of
all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher
reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input
available
at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't understand a
word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn
and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start with
only
minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at
first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not
asthey
age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;;
yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear
better
simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on
the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options will
not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all how
good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I
believe
will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the
voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific
to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:14:08 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <013501cd9a67$3f1e45f0$bd5ad1d0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Absolutely agree.
It would be nice to just do an install and have everything (or at least
99%)
work as advertised. (LOLLOLLOL)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Drew Hunthausen
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

I also totally agree with this; We don't need new features, we just need
the
ones we have to work properly and for Jaws to keep up with advancing
technology. Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:40 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Ed,

I would sign such a petition, and would give up one SMA (a JAWS major
revision number) if that is what it would take for FS to push out a
revision
of JAWS with no new features and only fixes to past bugs.

What's the next step?


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 17:22
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features which,
it

seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a

request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed

known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to

do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users sign
a

petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands

of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the

petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope

that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the

ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details

I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:31 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0b864d$af495r@fipsb03.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



Obviously Karen has lots of spair time to hang out on mailing lists
of compeditors products.

At 11:05 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
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OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
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work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:23:52 -0400
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <B05B13337FC24C91A173ABF1A388C774@Graham>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Well, this is my exact point.

I thought you understood my meaning, we are paying for all these sma's
purely to keep up to date but not advancing much. I blame Microsoft,
they
keep changing their operating system and Jaws have to adapt to it. Its
all

about progress and at the end of the day money.

I for one would hate to be stuck back at XP with Jaws 7 but at the time
it
was doing the same as an update system today.

This is how I see it anyway.

Graham


Graham


-----Original Message-----
From: Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:01
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: SMA: Their Value?

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems
and
web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for
them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as
it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been
about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:29:37 -0500
From: "David Ingram" <dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5267E5C5006C4238955BA0F180EE2DC3@david1c2ee352a>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems and
depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned that
wouldn't

be an option considering the costs of embossers these days. If i was
restricted to learning braille then storing documents would be a problem.
Storage space and what if i wanted to use a dictionary, or an
encyclopedia
or a thesaurus. I like the ability to get books in electronic format.
The

reason being is because even thou i have to wait until a book is
available

in electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them.
Would't

it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful
when

used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective
of

all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of
input

available at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start
with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not
asthey

age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system
should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear
better

simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use
the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options
will

not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all
how

good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I
believe

will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the
voices

in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific
to

fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to
get

it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic.

I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete

this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:46 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DB3@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sounds for all the world like what happened between 10 and 11. If so,
be prepared to completely uninstall the beta, and reinstall 13, choosing
the repair option. That'll reinstate the old behavior.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:54 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

Hmm, could you remove and re-install WordPerfect?
Something must have gotten hozed up with JAWS 14 install.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of john.falter
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:28 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

After I installed JAWS14 beta
I couldn't use WordPerfect 12.
Up and Down arrows spoke nothing.
Right and left arrows spoke only one character at a time.
Insert plus 2 spoke nothing.
Shift plus end said selected but trying cut or paste said not selected.
And the date was not placed on the clipboard.
It was not possible to route the JAWS cursor to the PC cursor.
Font seemed to be reported correctly.
I dropped back to 13 and got the same WordPerfect results.
I uninstalled.JAWS14 but got the same WordPerfect results on JAWS.13
and JAWS.9.
I sent three bug reports to FS.
What else can I do?
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:57 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <d8eccc$1m4tig@fipsb02.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



I don't think Richard or I were talking about embossed books, but
using a refreshable display.

At 11:29 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems
and depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned
that wouldn't be an option considering the costs of embossers
these days. If i was restricted to learning braille then storing
documents would be a problem. Storage space and what if i wanted
to use a dictionary, or an encyclopedia or a thesaurus. I like
the ability to get books in electronic format. The reason being
is because even thou i have to wait until a book is available in
electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holloway"
<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough,
some will unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will
help them. Would't it be be better to learn braille before that
becomes an imperative need? There is also the notion that reading
and listening are two entirely different kinds of learning (no
matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite
useful when used in conjunction with a refreshable braille
display. Using a screen reader in conjunction with a braille
display can be the most effective of all, much like students in a
class reading along in a text book as a teacher reads the text
aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input available at
the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you
start to learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you,
even if you start with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including
minor ones at first must at least be able to work and hear
whatJAWS is saying sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw
ill become a bigger piece oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice
ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with
limited synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear
distinctly, maybe should realize that there are people who
cannot or will not asthey age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating
system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and
hear better simply because a companywill not invest in what
blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers
persons whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and
8 were on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more
synthesizer options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one
use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think
I speak for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer
options will not
make the product better. What will actually make the product
more usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better
functionality. After all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at
all how good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many
training center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the
synthesizer voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one
I believe will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that
the voices in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I
fear the loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the
computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we
get better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for
the purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this
and, doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom
Scientific to fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new
features which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the
program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that
means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm
talking about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features
until it has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom
Scientific to get it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands
of users sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to
ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition
is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those
who signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put
their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able
to sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it
were, to spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen
reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I
have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be
fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would
be willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students
protesting a student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by
one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly,
there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's
do something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT
BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT,
AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise
protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:37:28 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DC2@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Depends upon what you mean by protect. The only thing we use
screensavers for around here is to prevent snooping, LCD's are not
subject to burn-in, and that's what screensavers were designed to
prevent.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jim L
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:13 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP

Yeah I don't doubt this will work and know how to turn off screensaver
but what if I leave my PC unattended for awhile what will protect my
monitor?




-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, 23 September 2012 10:04 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws 13 with XP


Hi Jim,

Running a screen saver will make Jaws act pretty weird, at least from
what I've noticed. I always set the screen saver option to none to
avoid focus issues. Go to control panel / Display / Screen Saver Tab,
to make the adjustment if you would like to give it a try, just to see
if it helps. HTH Take care. Mike This email was sent from our,
iGasSucking460Powered1969Mach1!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim L
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:34 AM
Subject: Jaws 13 with XP


Heya folks,

Am running windows XP Home and Jaws 13 seems to work fine , nice and
smooth
and slick till either my screensaver comes on or my monitor comes back
from
sleep mode and every thing slows down, tabbing around is delayed and
lagging
and in the end I need to reboot. My screen resolution is 1024by 768 as
I've
always had for years Is there any fix for this or something I can
disable in
Jaws feature in 13 to still be able to run my screen saver and protect
my
monotor?

Any help will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim


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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:46:21 -0800
From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID:
<CAG5j88oMBSaAFbXFdRaS=SufmqXQNpmA9UR9m7CYCQQ_8SheeA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The natural voices can only go so fast, and usable speed wise it's
quite a bit lower than eloquence, no matter how much power you throw
at it. However, I likely have the most hardware in a single box and
by the time you get to what I have they are in fact plenty responsive.
I have an 8 core Xeon running at 3ghz system with 32gb ram as my
desktop system.

The SAPI5 voices from Ivona can go a fair bit faster than the solo
direct (or whatever other interface nuance chooses to slap on top of
it)but I find them less comfortable to use. Just the quirks in
enunciation. The book port plus has what I would call a
"semi-mechanical" synthesizer, and that I actually find very
comfortable to use., even with the speed increased to 4 or 5.

(That is one problem we face, every system I've seen measures speed in
different terms so it's no so easy to do a direct comparison
On 9/24/12, John Sherrer <john@whitecane.org> wrote:
I have tried the Human like voices and found them slow and not very
responsive. But the electronic voices can go fast and are ddresponsive.
It
seems to me that the extra harmonics on the human sounding voices take
a
lot more processing power to generate, maybe the problem will be solved
with
more processing power? If someone on this list using a 12 core
processor
tried the human voices? I am not an expert on programming, or how the
voices are generated.
I noticed that when I downloaded the JAWS beta that they offer 64 bit
voices, has anyone tried them or do we have to wait for the official
release?
John Sherrer

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center

asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices

for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I believe
will

get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue,
how else can one usethe computer unless we get better synthesizer
options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of

highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,

other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,

it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign

a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I

cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:56:37 -0400
From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.
Message-ID: <CD776AA925C64971AC5A51B5A62B8F4E@ADRIAN01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It works just about every time for me now in Outlook 2003, though it
didn't
start out that way. I speculate that the longer the list of contacts, the
more reliable it becomes. I suspect that if I try to reply to a sender
I've
never emailed before, it wouldn't work. In that case, I'd just set up a
reply as usual, then arrow down for the sender's address. It isn't always
there, but usually it is.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:56 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Yes,

works 50% of the time wiht Windows Mail. The scripting is rather funky, I
think.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "david" <davidwhitehead1957@cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 06:44
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.


Hello there;
Well, to reply privately to a message from the list,
The keystroke is,
Shift+insert+r,
However,
This doesn't work with outlook2010,
Outlook2007,
Not sure about windows live mail,
I think it does work in outlook express.



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Michael Capelle
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:29 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

just press control-r, you might be hitting the reply to all option.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Mote
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:18 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Hi folks! Need to know how to reply to the sender of a message here on
the
list instead of the entire list.
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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:03:26 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Room For One More
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2E2E@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I don't think the initial message called for this group to take up
programming. However, most of the readers, going back to the mid
1980's, sprang from a desire to build a better mouse trap. After all,
there were other , and better, readers already in the market when Ted
Henter had his brainstorm. If any enterprising types want to jump in
and try their luck against FS and GWMicro, let 'em have at it. However,
I think we all agree it will take a consortium. I know at least one
talented programmer who tried it single-handed, but the challenge was
more than he could handle.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 12:52 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Room For One More

It's easy to bash companies like FS, but the truth is that it takes lots
of skill and resources to develop and manage products such as these.
Abilities that many of us as end users of Jaws for example simply don't
have and unless we wanted to and had the time and means to undertake the
God knows how much time and effort to obtain them aren't going to do so.

Frustration with a product and making one's displeasure known to the
company is completely valid and reasonable. But ringing the bell and
calling all computer users to cyber arms to form a rag tag peasant army
of programmers as a solution to those valid frustrations and complaints
is quite simply unfeasible and not based in reality.

I would be more than happy to sign a petition and perhaps other
organized means to manifest the overall displeasure with certain aspects
of Jaws and whatnot, but the other...? Yeah, I think I'll pass. I like
to complain about my cell phone from time to time, but I'm not about to
go busting out my imaginary techy wizz/engineer's hat with my other cell
phone using acquaintances to start tinkering with trying to create a
phone from scratch whenall I want is perhaps a better user experience in
some parts and bug fixes in others. I just use a cell phone. I don't
need to know how to build one from scratch.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:49 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Room For One More

Peter,

I question your common sense. How do you propose to organize us, a group
of users, to become programmers and develop a screen reader from the
ground up?

I for one have no experience, so you'll have to excuse me from your
plan.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2@satx.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 20:34
Subject: Re: Room For One More


Hello everyone,

This would need to be a team effort. Let's do something meaningful such
as
develop another screen reading application rather than waste our time
with
junk like petitions.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido Corona" <aloysiusq@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Room For One More


Uhrn.... Peter.... Are you volunteering your talent?

Guido
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On
Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:28 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Room For One More

Good evening everyone,

There's always the competition route. The blind community has
talented
programmers who could develop a new screen reading package that would
have
all of the features and power of JAWS including long-needed features to
address problems not currently remedied by any screen reader. The
ability to
read captcha characters falls in this category. If the application is
designed from the ground up by those fully aware of JFW's short-comings
would
be in an excellent position to create a new leading-edge screen reading
system that would be free of most bugs and priced more cheaply.
Never mind the petition. There's always room for one more screen reading
package so why not create one to give blind computer users another
choice
when it comes to screen access technology.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which, it
seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something
to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about a
request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed
known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to
do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign a
petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands
of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the
petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope
that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the
ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details
I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:59:47 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <37868E7B3EFD4D5FA19D017ACB341D8C@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money
to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need
donations

to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers

as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness

of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:13:49 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <D32D720285C94A5197C9E847761EC4FC@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although it
worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't
going
to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send out
email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that the
screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system

without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that tell how
blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
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Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
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--------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:17:57 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <C00BD1DD1A3548DCA2FA5BFC5573476F@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gary,

Don't count on it. She's a shoot-and-run type who just likes to stir up
muck.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 09:59
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money
to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need
donations
to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers
as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness
of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:28 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <03ADC6CF955C4AA88DADE68D70BD6337@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Hi,



Texas is about to start providing mac's and I devices.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although
it

worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't
going

to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send
out

email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that
the

screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that
tell how blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing
that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a
Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:26:04 -0400
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <903AE0784B494D81A0EBBAD00DD64E46@glevy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=response


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major blind
rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative

to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it would mean that
their technology trainers would have to be familiar with two totally
different operating systems, program sets and keyboard commands. Plus,
the

rehab center would have to purchase and maintain two totally incompatible
groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies
simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients
for

jobs in the business world which relies heavily on Windows computers, not
Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology trainer at the rehab
center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to learn how to use a Mac ,
I

would have to do it on my own. This particular agency has had a
long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all their hardware
from
them. So naturally, their clients only receive training on Windows
machines. To their credit, they did offer me a choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I was
totally

unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:31:50 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0274EBE5515F457E87789ECC09AED319@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response


Hi,


DBS in Texas started trainers testing on apple and I devices in July. I
know

because I took the I device test. I plann to take the apple test in the
future.


From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal



Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major
blind

rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it
would mean that their technology trainers would have to be familiar with
two totally different operating systems, program sets and keyboard
commands. Plus, the rehab center would have to purchase and maintain
two

totally incompatible groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money,
which

most rehab agencies simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab
is to train clients for jobs in the business world which relies heavily
on

Windows computers, not Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology
trainer at the rehab center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to
learn how to use a Mac , I would have to do it on my own. This
particular

agency has had a long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all
their hardware from them. So naturally, their clients only receive
training on Windows machines. To their credit, they did offer me a
choice

of screen readers: JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my
training, I was totally unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS.
I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing
that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a
Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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09/23/12

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09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:32:42 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <017101cd9a72$38e5dcb0$aab19610$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You can relax when Hell freezes over. (LOLLOLLOL)
I am in the same boat. I have had JAWS since 1993 or so and I feel that,
at
this point, I have paid enough.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:20 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who
can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I first
got
it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it comes to
paying
for something like the current price of an upgrade by the cost of $500
and
paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly upgrade, I'm
paying
twice for the cost of this program. When you think of it already paid
that
price then some. You would think that if I've been a customer since
windows
3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly going to windows 7 When
can I relax and just enjoy all the features that are suppose to work!
I'll
sign something if it means that something is going to be done concerning
product improvements. Also just think of all these that are in business
to
make a sizable profit. Maybe there also needs to be a board of stock
holders like they have for other companies. If we were stockholders, we
would be able to determine what the policies or something since they
would
be accountable to us! You see, think of all the fortune 500 companies
who
are publicly traded, you've noticed that these companies are accountable
to
there stock holders. That is something that no one has addressed. When
companies are accountable to stockholders, they are more likely to listen
to
people who have a steak in the future of the company.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chairman Mal" <chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a
solution, Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy
their product. I should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time
being, but my point is that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment
with respect to customer relations. A petition mentioning other
products may give them pause to think. I know other vendors have
their own issues but we need to approach this as a serious effort to
solve an outstanding issue with Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to
reward them with a free SMA to fix a product that should already be turn
key ready. Where's the quid pro quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be
willing to sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to
do anything. It just underscores how serious the problem has become
to the people Freedom Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base
of
customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable,
bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs left or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done, and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date: 09/23/12

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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------------------------------

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End of Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
***********************************
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Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18

Tom Lange
 

Hi,
Any time I see a post with digest in the subject line it nearly always gets deleted.
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


I have no idea, but when you figure it out, let us know -- we're all just
frothing at the mouth, waiting to learn what you discover.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richard Dexheimer" <drichardd@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 20:39
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


Where's the new reply? All I can find is the long thread of earlier
messages.

Douglas Richard Dexheimer
Chief of Braille Productions
Born-Again Productions
The Friedman Place, Apt.308
5527 N. Maplewood Ave.
Chicago, IL 60625
773-901-7306
cell 913-244-0612
drichardd@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Turner" <doogiepower@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


On 9/24/12, jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com <jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com>
wrote:
Send Jfw mailing list submissions to
jfw@lists.the-jdh.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
jfw-owner@lists.the-jdh.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Jfw digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
2. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
3. SMA: Their Value? (Farfar Carlson)
4. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
5. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
6. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
7. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)
8. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
9. Re: SMA: Their Value? (Graham Smith)
10. Re: A Modest Proposal (David Ingram)
11. RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14 (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
12. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
13. RE: Jaws 13 with XP (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
14. Re: A Modest Proposal (Soronel Haetir)
15. RE: Replying to sender instead of the list. (Adrian Spratt)
16. RE: Room For One More (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
17. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
18. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
19. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
20. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
21. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gerald Levy)
22. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
23. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:57:17 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5FDE6995-480A-4FE3-9DF9-ACE253E9FBA6@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but
they
still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible
stuff.
I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few
ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the
product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the
market
works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh,
I
though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by
the
cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think
of
it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been
a
customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of
all
these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of
all
the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is
something
that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak
in
the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts
that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product.
I
should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to
fix
a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done,
and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date:
09/23/12

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:58:23 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <64e3aa$afnmjo@fipsb01.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:01:51 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <2FC2F8B0C8414D00A7E7CC361B9E02F9@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems
and

web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for

them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as
it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been
about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:07 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <45D7CD34661B4D709ECBB3AE3FD494D5@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good point -- in a nutshell, if we all were to stop purchasing JAWS and
stick with our current version, FS would notice in about a year that
something was wrong. However on our list, do we represent more than 5% of
the user community? I think not. so our voice would likely not make much
of

a sound. A petition across all user communities and lists, and
International

in scope would d be needed to have a more significant effect.

Then we all sit back and wait to see when FS wakes up.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:57
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but
they

still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible
stuff.

I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few
ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the
product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the
market

works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh,
I

though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by
the

cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think
of

it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been
a

customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of
all

these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of
all

the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is
something

that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak
in

the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts

that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product.
I

should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to
fix

a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs

left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done,
and

I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date:
09/23/12

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:52 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <51874C2BF06D4E4FA5AFC28C9BD9C375@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:06:49 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <CE49C0B6-0758-44A7-8D6A-182C91BB57FD@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them.
Would't
it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful
when
used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective of
all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher
reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input
available
at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't understand a
word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn
and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start with
only
minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at
first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not
asthey
age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;;
yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear
better
simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on
the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options will
not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all how
good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I
believe
will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the
voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific
to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:14:08 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <013501cd9a67$3f1e45f0$bd5ad1d0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Absolutely agree.
It would be nice to just do an install and have everything (or at least
99%)
work as advertised. (LOLLOLLOL)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Drew Hunthausen
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

I also totally agree with this; We don't need new features, we just need
the
ones we have to work properly and for Jaws to keep up with advancing
technology. Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:40 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Ed,

I would sign such a petition, and would give up one SMA (a JAWS major
revision number) if that is what it would take for FS to push out a
revision
of JAWS with no new features and only fixes to past bugs.

What's the next step?


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 17:22
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features which,
it

seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a

request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed

known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to

do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users sign
a

petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands

of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the

petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope

that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the

ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details

I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:31 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0b864d$af495r@fipsb03.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



Obviously Karen has lots of spair time to hang out on mailing lists
of compeditors products.

At 11:05 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
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BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:23:52 -0400
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <B05B13337FC24C91A173ABF1A388C774@Graham>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Well, this is my exact point.

I thought you understood my meaning, we are paying for all these sma's
purely to keep up to date but not advancing much. I blame Microsoft,
they
keep changing their operating system and Jaws have to adapt to it. Its
all

about progress and at the end of the day money.

I for one would hate to be stuck back at XP with Jaws 7 but at the time
it
was doing the same as an update system today.

This is how I see it anyway.

Graham


Graham


-----Original Message-----
From: Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:01
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: SMA: Their Value?

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems
and
web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for
them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as
it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been
about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:29:37 -0500
From: "David Ingram" <dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5267E5C5006C4238955BA0F180EE2DC3@david1c2ee352a>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems and
depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned that
wouldn't

be an option considering the costs of embossers these days. If i was
restricted to learning braille then storing documents would be a problem.
Storage space and what if i wanted to use a dictionary, or an
encyclopedia
or a thesaurus. I like the ability to get books in electronic format.
The

reason being is because even thou i have to wait until a book is
available

in electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them.
Would't

it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful
when

used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective
of

all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of
input

available at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start
with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not
asthey

age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system
should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear
better

simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use
the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options
will

not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all
how

good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I
believe

will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the
voices

in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific
to

fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to
get

it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic.

I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete

this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:46 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DB3@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sounds for all the world like what happened between 10 and 11. If so,
be prepared to completely uninstall the beta, and reinstall 13, choosing
the repair option. That'll reinstate the old behavior.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:54 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

Hmm, could you remove and re-install WordPerfect?
Something must have gotten hozed up with JAWS 14 install.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of john.falter
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:28 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

After I installed JAWS14 beta
I couldn't use WordPerfect 12.
Up and Down arrows spoke nothing.
Right and left arrows spoke only one character at a time.
Insert plus 2 spoke nothing.
Shift plus end said selected but trying cut or paste said not selected.
And the date was not placed on the clipboard.
It was not possible to route the JAWS cursor to the PC cursor.
Font seemed to be reported correctly.
I dropped back to 13 and got the same WordPerfect results.
I uninstalled.JAWS14 but got the same WordPerfect results on JAWS.13
and JAWS.9.
I sent three bug reports to FS.
What else can I do?
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:57 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <d8eccc$1m4tig@fipsb02.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



I don't think Richard or I were talking about embossed books, but
using a refreshable display.

At 11:29 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems
and depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned
that wouldn't be an option considering the costs of embossers
these days. If i was restricted to learning braille then storing
documents would be a problem. Storage space and what if i wanted
to use a dictionary, or an encyclopedia or a thesaurus. I like
the ability to get books in electronic format. The reason being
is because even thou i have to wait until a book is available in
electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holloway"
<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough,
some will unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will
help them. Would't it be be better to learn braille before that
becomes an imperative need? There is also the notion that reading
and listening are two entirely different kinds of learning (no
matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite
useful when used in conjunction with a refreshable braille
display. Using a screen reader in conjunction with a braille
display can be the most effective of all, much like students in a
class reading along in a text book as a teacher reads the text
aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input available at
the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you
start to learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you,
even if you start with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including
minor ones at first must at least be able to work and hear
whatJAWS is saying sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw
ill become a bigger piece oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice
ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with
limited synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear
distinctly, maybe should realize that there are people who
cannot or will not asthey age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating
system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and
hear better simply because a companywill not invest in what
blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers
persons whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and
8 were on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more
synthesizer options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one
use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think
I speak for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer
options will not
make the product better. What will actually make the product
more usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better
functionality. After all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at
all how good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many
training center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the
synthesizer voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one
I believe will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that
the voices in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I
fear the loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the
computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we
get better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for
the purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this
and, doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom
Scientific to fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new
features which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the
program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that
means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm
talking about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features
until it has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom
Scientific to get it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands
of users sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to
ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition
is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those
who signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put
their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able
to sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it
were, to spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen
reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I
have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be
fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would
be willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students
protesting a student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by
one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly,
there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's
do something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT
BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT,
AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise
protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:37:28 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DC2@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Depends upon what you mean by protect. The only thing we use
screensavers for around here is to prevent snooping, LCD's are not
subject to burn-in, and that's what screensavers were designed to
prevent.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jim L
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:13 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP

Yeah I don't doubt this will work and know how to turn off screensaver
but what if I leave my PC unattended for awhile what will protect my
monitor?




-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, 23 September 2012 10:04 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws 13 with XP


Hi Jim,

Running a screen saver will make Jaws act pretty weird, at least from
what I've noticed. I always set the screen saver option to none to
avoid focus issues. Go to control panel / Display / Screen Saver Tab,
to make the adjustment if you would like to give it a try, just to see
if it helps. HTH Take care. Mike This email was sent from our,
iGasSucking460Powered1969Mach1!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim L
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:34 AM
Subject: Jaws 13 with XP


Heya folks,

Am running windows XP Home and Jaws 13 seems to work fine , nice and
smooth
and slick till either my screensaver comes on or my monitor comes back
from
sleep mode and every thing slows down, tabbing around is delayed and
lagging
and in the end I need to reboot. My screen resolution is 1024by 768 as
I've
always had for years Is there any fix for this or something I can
disable in
Jaws feature in 13 to still be able to run my screen saver and protect
my
monotor?

Any help will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim


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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:46:21 -0800
From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID:
<CAG5j88oMBSaAFbXFdRaS=SufmqXQNpmA9UR9m7CYCQQ_8SheeA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The natural voices can only go so fast, and usable speed wise it's
quite a bit lower than eloquence, no matter how much power you throw
at it. However, I likely have the most hardware in a single box and
by the time you get to what I have they are in fact plenty responsive.
I have an 8 core Xeon running at 3ghz system with 32gb ram as my
desktop system.

The SAPI5 voices from Ivona can go a fair bit faster than the solo
direct (or whatever other interface nuance chooses to slap on top of
it)but I find them less comfortable to use. Just the quirks in
enunciation. The book port plus has what I would call a
"semi-mechanical" synthesizer, and that I actually find very
comfortable to use., even with the speed increased to 4 or 5.

(That is one problem we face, every system I've seen measures speed in
different terms so it's no so easy to do a direct comparison
On 9/24/12, John Sherrer <john@whitecane.org> wrote:
I have tried the Human like voices and found them slow and not very
responsive. But the electronic voices can go fast and are ddresponsive.
It
seems to me that the extra harmonics on the human sounding voices take
a
lot more processing power to generate, maybe the problem will be solved
with
more processing power? If someone on this list using a 12 core
processor
tried the human voices? I am not an expert on programming, or how the
voices are generated.
I noticed that when I downloaded the JAWS beta that they offer 64 bit
voices, has anyone tried them or do we have to wait for the official
release?
John Sherrer

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center

asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices

for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I believe
will

get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue,
how else can one usethe computer unless we get better synthesizer
options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of

highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,

other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,

it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign

a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I

cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:56:37 -0400
From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.
Message-ID: <CD776AA925C64971AC5A51B5A62B8F4E@ADRIAN01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It works just about every time for me now in Outlook 2003, though it
didn't
start out that way. I speculate that the longer the list of contacts, the
more reliable it becomes. I suspect that if I try to reply to a sender
I've
never emailed before, it wouldn't work. In that case, I'd just set up a
reply as usual, then arrow down for the sender's address. It isn't always
there, but usually it is.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:56 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Yes,

works 50% of the time wiht Windows Mail. The scripting is rather funky, I
think.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "david" <davidwhitehead1957@cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 06:44
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.


Hello there;
Well, to reply privately to a message from the list,
The keystroke is,
Shift+insert+r,
However,
This doesn't work with outlook2010,
Outlook2007,
Not sure about windows live mail,
I think it does work in outlook express.



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Michael Capelle
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:29 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

just press control-r, you might be hitting the reply to all option.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Mote
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:18 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Hi folks! Need to know how to reply to the sender of a message here on
the
list instead of the entire list.
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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:03:26 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Room For One More
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2E2E@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I don't think the initial message called for this group to take up
programming. However, most of the readers, going back to the mid
1980's, sprang from a desire to build a better mouse trap. After all,
there were other , and better, readers already in the market when Ted
Henter had his brainstorm. If any enterprising types want to jump in
and try their luck against FS and GWMicro, let 'em have at it. However,
I think we all agree it will take a consortium. I know at least one
talented programmer who tried it single-handed, but the challenge was
more than he could handle.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 12:52 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Room For One More

It's easy to bash companies like FS, but the truth is that it takes lots
of skill and resources to develop and manage products such as these.
Abilities that many of us as end users of Jaws for example simply don't
have and unless we wanted to and had the time and means to undertake the
God knows how much time and effort to obtain them aren't going to do so.

Frustration with a product and making one's displeasure known to the
company is completely valid and reasonable. But ringing the bell and
calling all computer users to cyber arms to form a rag tag peasant army
of programmers as a solution to those valid frustrations and complaints
is quite simply unfeasible and not based in reality.

I would be more than happy to sign a petition and perhaps other
organized means to manifest the overall displeasure with certain aspects
of Jaws and whatnot, but the other...? Yeah, I think I'll pass. I like
to complain about my cell phone from time to time, but I'm not about to
go busting out my imaginary techy wizz/engineer's hat with my other cell
phone using acquaintances to start tinkering with trying to create a
phone from scratch whenall I want is perhaps a better user experience in
some parts and bug fixes in others. I just use a cell phone. I don't
need to know how to build one from scratch.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:49 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Room For One More

Peter,

I question your common sense. How do you propose to organize us, a group
of users, to become programmers and develop a screen reader from the
ground up?

I for one have no experience, so you'll have to excuse me from your
plan.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2@satx.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 20:34
Subject: Re: Room For One More


Hello everyone,

This would need to be a team effort. Let's do something meaningful such
as
develop another screen reading application rather than waste our time
with
junk like petitions.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido Corona" <aloysiusq@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Room For One More


Uhrn.... Peter.... Are you volunteering your talent?

Guido
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On
Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:28 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Room For One More

Good evening everyone,

There's always the competition route. The blind community has
talented
programmers who could develop a new screen reading package that would
have
all of the features and power of JAWS including long-needed features to
address problems not currently remedied by any screen reader. The
ability to
read captcha characters falls in this category. If the application is
designed from the ground up by those fully aware of JFW's short-comings
would
be in an excellent position to create a new leading-edge screen reading
system that would be free of most bugs and priced more cheaply.
Never mind the petition. There's always room for one more screen reading
package so why not create one to give blind computer users another
choice
when it comes to screen access technology.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which, it
seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something
to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about a
request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed
known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to
do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign a
petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands
of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the
petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope
that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the
ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details
I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:59:47 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <37868E7B3EFD4D5FA19D017ACB341D8C@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money
to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need
donations

to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers

as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness

of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:13:49 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <D32D720285C94A5197C9E847761EC4FC@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although it
worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't
going
to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send out
email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that the
screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system

without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that tell how
blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:17:57 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <C00BD1DD1A3548DCA2FA5BFC5573476F@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gary,

Don't count on it. She's a shoot-and-run type who just likes to stir up
muck.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 09:59
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money
to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need
donations
to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers
as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness
of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:28 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <03ADC6CF955C4AA88DADE68D70BD6337@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Hi,



Texas is about to start providing mac's and I devices.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although
it

worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't
going

to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send
out

email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that
the

screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that
tell how blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing
that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a
Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:26:04 -0400
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <903AE0784B494D81A0EBBAD00DD64E46@glevy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=response


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major blind
rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative

to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it would mean that
their technology trainers would have to be familiar with two totally
different operating systems, program sets and keyboard commands. Plus,
the

rehab center would have to purchase and maintain two totally incompatible
groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies
simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients
for

jobs in the business world which relies heavily on Windows computers, not
Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology trainer at the rehab
center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to learn how to use a Mac ,
I

would have to do it on my own. This particular agency has had a
long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all their hardware
from
them. So naturally, their clients only receive training on Windows
machines. To their credit, they did offer me a choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I was
totally

unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:31:50 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0274EBE5515F457E87789ECC09AED319@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response


Hi,


DBS in Texas started trainers testing on apple and I devices in July. I
know

because I took the I device test. I plann to take the apple test in the
future.


From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal



Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major
blind

rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it
would mean that their technology trainers would have to be familiar with
two totally different operating systems, program sets and keyboard
commands. Plus, the rehab center would have to purchase and maintain
two

totally incompatible groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money,
which

most rehab agencies simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab
is to train clients for jobs in the business world which relies heavily
on

Windows computers, not Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology
trainer at the rehab center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to
learn how to use a Mac , I would have to do it on my own. This
particular

agency has had a long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all
their hardware from them. So naturally, their clients only receive
training on Windows machines. To their credit, they did offer me a
choice

of screen readers: JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my
training, I was totally unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS.
I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing
that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a
Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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09/23/12

-----
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09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:32:42 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <017101cd9a72$38e5dcb0$aab19610$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You can relax when Hell freezes over. (LOLLOLLOL)
I am in the same boat. I have had JAWS since 1993 or so and I feel that,
at
this point, I have paid enough.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:20 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who
can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I first
got
it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it comes to
paying
for something like the current price of an upgrade by the cost of $500
and
paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly upgrade, I'm
paying
twice for the cost of this program. When you think of it already paid
that
price then some. You would think that if I've been a customer since
windows
3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly going to windows 7 When
can I relax and just enjoy all the features that are suppose to work!
I'll
sign something if it means that something is going to be done concerning
product improvements. Also just think of all these that are in business
to
make a sizable profit. Maybe there also needs to be a board of stock
holders like they have for other companies. If we were stockholders, we
would be able to determine what the policies or something since they
would
be accountable to us! You see, think of all the fortune 500 companies
who
are publicly traded, you've noticed that these companies are accountable
to
there stock holders. That is something that no one has addressed. When
companies are accountable to stockholders, they are more likely to listen
to
people who have a steak in the future of the company.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chairman Mal" <chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a
solution, Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy
their product. I should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time
being, but my point is that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment
with respect to customer relations. A petition mentioning other
products may give them pause to think. I know other vendors have
their own issues but we need to approach this as a serious effort to
solve an outstanding issue with Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to
reward them with a free SMA to fix a product that should already be turn
key ready. Where's the quid pro quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be
willing to sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to
do anything. It just underscores how serious the problem has become
to the people Freedom Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base
of
customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable,
bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs left or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done, and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date: 09/23/12

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------------------------------

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End of Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
***********************************
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Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18

Dave...
 

I have no idea, but when you figure it out, let us know -- we're all just
frothing at the mouth, waiting to learn what you discover.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richard Dexheimer" <drichardd@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 20:39
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


Where's the new reply? All I can find is the long thread of earlier
messages.

Douglas Richard Dexheimer
Chief of Braille Productions
Born-Again Productions
The Friedman Place, Apt.308
5527 N. Maplewood Ave.
Chicago, IL 60625
773-901-7306
cell 913-244-0612
drichardd@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Turner" <doogiepower@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


On 9/24/12, jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com <jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com>
wrote:
Send Jfw mailing list submissions to
jfw@lists.the-jdh.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
jfw-owner@lists.the-jdh.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Jfw digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
2. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
3. SMA: Their Value? (Farfar Carlson)
4. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
5. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
6. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
7. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)
8. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
9. Re: SMA: Their Value? (Graham Smith)
10. Re: A Modest Proposal (David Ingram)
11. RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14 (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
12. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
13. RE: Jaws 13 with XP (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
14. Re: A Modest Proposal (Soronel Haetir)
15. RE: Replying to sender instead of the list. (Adrian Spratt)
16. RE: Room For One More (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
17. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
18. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
19. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
20. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
21. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gerald Levy)
22. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
23. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:57:17 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5FDE6995-480A-4FE3-9DF9-ACE253E9FBA6@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but
they
still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible
stuff.
I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few
ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the
product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the
market
works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh,
I
though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by
the
cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think
of
it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been
a
customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of
all
these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of
all
the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is
something
that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak
in
the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts
that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product.
I
should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to
fix
a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done,
and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:58:23 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <64e3aa$afnmjo@fipsb01.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:01:51 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <2FC2F8B0C8414D00A7E7CC361B9E02F9@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems
and

web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for

them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as
it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been
about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:07 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <45D7CD34661B4D709ECBB3AE3FD494D5@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good point -- in a nutshell, if we all were to stop purchasing JAWS and
stick with our current version, FS would notice in about a year that
something was wrong. However on our list, do we represent more than 5% of
the user community? I think not. so our voice would likely not make much
of

a sound. A petition across all user communities and lists, and
International

in scope would d be needed to have a more significant effect.

Then we all sit back and wait to see when FS wakes up.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:57
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but
they

still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible
stuff.

I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few
ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the
product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the
market

works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh,
I

though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by
the

cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think
of

it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been
a

customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of
all

these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of
all

the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is
something

that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak
in

the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts

that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product.
I

should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to
fix

a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs

left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done,
and

I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:52 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <51874C2BF06D4E4FA5AFC28C9BD9C375@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:06:49 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <CE49C0B6-0758-44A7-8D6A-182C91BB57FD@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them.
Would't
it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful
when
used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective of
all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher
reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input
available
at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't understand a
word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn
and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start with
only
minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at
first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not
asthey
age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;;
yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear
better
simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on
the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options will
not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all how
good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I
believe
will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the
voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific
to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:14:08 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <013501cd9a67$3f1e45f0$bd5ad1d0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Absolutely agree.
It would be nice to just do an install and have everything (or at least
99%)
work as advertised. (LOLLOLLOL)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Drew Hunthausen
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

I also totally agree with this; We don't need new features, we just need
the
ones we have to work properly and for Jaws to keep up with advancing
technology. Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:40 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Ed,

I would sign such a petition, and would give up one SMA (a JAWS major
revision number) if that is what it would take for FS to push out a
revision
of JAWS with no new features and only fixes to past bugs.

What's the next step?


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 17:22
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features which,
it

seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a

request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed

known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to

do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users sign
a

petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands

of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the

petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope

that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the

ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details

I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:31 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0b864d$af495r@fipsb03.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



Obviously Karen has lots of spair time to hang out on mailing lists
of compeditors products.

At 11:05 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:23:52 -0400
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <B05B13337FC24C91A173ABF1A388C774@Graham>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Well, this is my exact point.

I thought you understood my meaning, we are paying for all these sma's
purely to keep up to date but not advancing much. I blame Microsoft,
they
keep changing their operating system and Jaws have to adapt to it. Its
all

about progress and at the end of the day money.

I for one would hate to be stuck back at XP with Jaws 7 but at the time
it
was doing the same as an update system today.

This is how I see it anyway.

Graham


Graham


-----Original Message-----
From: Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:01
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: SMA: Their Value?

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems
and
web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for
them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as
it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been
about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
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ENTITY,
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WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:29:37 -0500
From: "David Ingram" <dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5267E5C5006C4238955BA0F180EE2DC3@david1c2ee352a>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems and
depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned that
wouldn't

be an option considering the costs of embossers these days. If i was
restricted to learning braille then storing documents would be a problem.
Storage space and what if i wanted to use a dictionary, or an
encyclopedia
or a thesaurus. I like the ability to get books in electronic format.
The

reason being is because even thou i have to wait until a book is
available

in electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them.
Would't

it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful
when

used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective
of

all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of
input

available at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start
with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not
asthey

age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system
should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear
better

simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use
the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options
will

not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all
how

good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I
believe

will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the
voices

in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific
to

fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to
get

it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic.

I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete

this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:46 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DB3@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sounds for all the world like what happened between 10 and 11. If so,
be prepared to completely uninstall the beta, and reinstall 13, choosing
the repair option. That'll reinstate the old behavior.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:54 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

Hmm, could you remove and re-install WordPerfect?
Something must have gotten hozed up with JAWS 14 install.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of john.falter
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:28 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

After I installed JAWS14 beta
I couldn't use WordPerfect 12.
Up and Down arrows spoke nothing.
Right and left arrows spoke only one character at a time.
Insert plus 2 spoke nothing.
Shift plus end said selected but trying cut or paste said not selected.
And the date was not placed on the clipboard.
It was not possible to route the JAWS cursor to the PC cursor.
Font seemed to be reported correctly.
I dropped back to 13 and got the same WordPerfect results.
I uninstalled.JAWS14 but got the same WordPerfect results on JAWS.13
and JAWS.9.
I sent three bug reports to FS.
What else can I do?
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:57 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <d8eccc$1m4tig@fipsb02.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



I don't think Richard or I were talking about embossed books, but
using a refreshable display.

At 11:29 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems
and depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned
that wouldn't be an option considering the costs of embossers
these days. If i was restricted to learning braille then storing
documents would be a problem. Storage space and what if i wanted
to use a dictionary, or an encyclopedia or a thesaurus. I like
the ability to get books in electronic format. The reason being
is because even thou i have to wait until a book is available in
electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holloway"
<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough,
some will unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will
help them. Would't it be be better to learn braille before that
becomes an imperative need? There is also the notion that reading
and listening are two entirely different kinds of learning (no
matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite
useful when used in conjunction with a refreshable braille
display. Using a screen reader in conjunction with a braille
display can be the most effective of all, much like students in a
class reading along in a text book as a teacher reads the text
aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input available at
the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you
start to learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you,
even if you start with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including
minor ones at first must at least be able to work and hear
whatJAWS is saying sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw
ill become a bigger piece oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice
ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with
limited synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear
distinctly, maybe should realize that there are people who
cannot or will not asthey age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating
system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and
hear better simply because a companywill not invest in what
blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers
persons whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and
8 were on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more
synthesizer options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one
use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think
I speak for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer
options will not
make the product better. What will actually make the product
more usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better
functionality. After all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at
all how good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many
training center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the
synthesizer voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one
I believe will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that
the voices in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I
fear the loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the
computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we
get better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for
the purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this
and, doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom
Scientific to fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new
features which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the
program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that
means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm
talking about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features
until it has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom
Scientific to get it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands
of users sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to
ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition
is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those
who signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put
their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able
to sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it
were, to spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen
reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I
have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be
fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would
be willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students
protesting a student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by
one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly,
there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's
do something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT
BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT,
AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise
protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
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BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:37:28 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DC2@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Depends upon what you mean by protect. The only thing we use
screensavers for around here is to prevent snooping, LCD's are not
subject to burn-in, and that's what screensavers were designed to
prevent.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jim L
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:13 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP

Yeah I don't doubt this will work and know how to turn off screensaver
but what if I leave my PC unattended for awhile what will protect my
monitor?




-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, 23 September 2012 10:04 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws 13 with XP


Hi Jim,

Running a screen saver will make Jaws act pretty weird, at least from
what I've noticed. I always set the screen saver option to none to
avoid focus issues. Go to control panel / Display / Screen Saver Tab,
to make the adjustment if you would like to give it a try, just to see
if it helps. HTH Take care. Mike This email was sent from our,
iGasSucking460Powered1969Mach1!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim L
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:34 AM
Subject: Jaws 13 with XP


Heya folks,

Am running windows XP Home and Jaws 13 seems to work fine , nice and
smooth
and slick till either my screensaver comes on or my monitor comes back
from
sleep mode and every thing slows down, tabbing around is delayed and
lagging
and in the end I need to reboot. My screen resolution is 1024by 768 as
I've
always had for years Is there any fix for this or something I can
disable in
Jaws feature in 13 to still be able to run my screen saver and protect
my
monotor?

Any help will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim


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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:46:21 -0800
From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID:
<CAG5j88oMBSaAFbXFdRaS=SufmqXQNpmA9UR9m7CYCQQ_8SheeA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The natural voices can only go so fast, and usable speed wise it's
quite a bit lower than eloquence, no matter how much power you throw
at it. However, I likely have the most hardware in a single box and
by the time you get to what I have they are in fact plenty responsive.
I have an 8 core Xeon running at 3ghz system with 32gb ram as my
desktop system.

The SAPI5 voices from Ivona can go a fair bit faster than the solo
direct (or whatever other interface nuance chooses to slap on top of
it)but I find them less comfortable to use. Just the quirks in
enunciation. The book port plus has what I would call a
"semi-mechanical" synthesizer, and that I actually find very
comfortable to use., even with the speed increased to 4 or 5.

(That is one problem we face, every system I've seen measures speed in
different terms so it's no so easy to do a direct comparison
On 9/24/12, John Sherrer <john@whitecane.org> wrote:
I have tried the Human like voices and found them slow and not very
responsive. But the electronic voices can go fast and are ddresponsive.
It
seems to me that the extra harmonics on the human sounding voices take
a
lot more processing power to generate, maybe the problem will be solved
with
more processing power? If someone on this list using a 12 core
processor
tried the human voices? I am not an expert on programming, or how the
voices are generated.
I noticed that when I downloaded the JAWS beta that they offer 64 bit
voices, has anyone tried them or do we have to wait for the official
release?
John Sherrer

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center

asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices

for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I believe
will

get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue,
how else can one usethe computer unless we get better synthesizer
options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of

highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,

other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,

it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign

a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I

cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:56:37 -0400
From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.
Message-ID: <CD776AA925C64971AC5A51B5A62B8F4E@ADRIAN01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It works just about every time for me now in Outlook 2003, though it
didn't
start out that way. I speculate that the longer the list of contacts, the
more reliable it becomes. I suspect that if I try to reply to a sender
I've
never emailed before, it wouldn't work. In that case, I'd just set up a
reply as usual, then arrow down for the sender's address. It isn't always
there, but usually it is.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:56 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Yes,

works 50% of the time wiht Windows Mail. The scripting is rather funky, I
think.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "david" <davidwhitehead1957@cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 06:44
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.


Hello there;
Well, to reply privately to a message from the list,
The keystroke is,
Shift+insert+r,
However,
This doesn't work with outlook2010,
Outlook2007,
Not sure about windows live mail,
I think it does work in outlook express.



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Michael Capelle
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:29 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

just press control-r, you might be hitting the reply to all option.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Mote
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:18 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Hi folks! Need to know how to reply to the sender of a message here on
the
list instead of the entire list.
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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:03:26 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Room For One More
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2E2E@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I don't think the initial message called for this group to take up
programming. However, most of the readers, going back to the mid
1980's, sprang from a desire to build a better mouse trap. After all,
there were other , and better, readers already in the market when Ted
Henter had his brainstorm. If any enterprising types want to jump in
and try their luck against FS and GWMicro, let 'em have at it. However,
I think we all agree it will take a consortium. I know at least one
talented programmer who tried it single-handed, but the challenge was
more than he could handle.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 12:52 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Room For One More

It's easy to bash companies like FS, but the truth is that it takes lots
of skill and resources to develop and manage products such as these.
Abilities that many of us as end users of Jaws for example simply don't
have and unless we wanted to and had the time and means to undertake the
God knows how much time and effort to obtain them aren't going to do so.

Frustration with a product and making one's displeasure known to the
company is completely valid and reasonable. But ringing the bell and
calling all computer users to cyber arms to form a rag tag peasant army
of programmers as a solution to those valid frustrations and complaints
is quite simply unfeasible and not based in reality.

I would be more than happy to sign a petition and perhaps other
organized means to manifest the overall displeasure with certain aspects
of Jaws and whatnot, but the other...? Yeah, I think I'll pass. I like
to complain about my cell phone from time to time, but I'm not about to
go busting out my imaginary techy wizz/engineer's hat with my other cell
phone using acquaintances to start tinkering with trying to create a
phone from scratch whenall I want is perhaps a better user experience in
some parts and bug fixes in others. I just use a cell phone. I don't
need to know how to build one from scratch.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:49 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Room For One More

Peter,

I question your common sense. How do you propose to organize us, a group
of users, to become programmers and develop a screen reader from the
ground up?

I for one have no experience, so you'll have to excuse me from your
plan.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2@satx.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 20:34
Subject: Re: Room For One More


Hello everyone,

This would need to be a team effort. Let's do something meaningful such
as
develop another screen reading application rather than waste our time
with
junk like petitions.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido Corona" <aloysiusq@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Room For One More


Uhrn.... Peter.... Are you volunteering your talent?

Guido
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On
Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:28 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Room For One More

Good evening everyone,

There's always the competition route. The blind community has
talented
programmers who could develop a new screen reading package that would
have
all of the features and power of JAWS including long-needed features to
address problems not currently remedied by any screen reader. The
ability to
read captcha characters falls in this category. If the application is
designed from the ground up by those fully aware of JFW's short-comings
would
be in an excellent position to create a new leading-edge screen reading
system that would be free of most bugs and priced more cheaply.
Never mind the petition. There's always room for one more screen reading
package so why not create one to give blind computer users another
choice
when it comes to screen access technology.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which, it
seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something
to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about a
request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed
known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to
do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign a
petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands
of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the
petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope
that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the
ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details
I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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09/23/12

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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:59:47 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <37868E7B3EFD4D5FA19D017ACB341D8C@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money
to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need
donations

to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers

as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness

of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:13:49 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <D32D720285C94A5197C9E847761EC4FC@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although it
worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't
going
to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send out
email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that the
screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system

without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that tell how
blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:17:57 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <C00BD1DD1A3548DCA2FA5BFC5573476F@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gary,

Don't count on it. She's a shoot-and-run type who just likes to stir up
muck.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 09:59
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money
to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need
donations
to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers
as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness
of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com




------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:28 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <03ADC6CF955C4AA88DADE68D70BD6337@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Hi,



Texas is about to start providing mac's and I devices.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although
it

worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't
going

to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send
out

email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that
the

screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that
tell how blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing
that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a
Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:26:04 -0400
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <903AE0784B494D81A0EBBAD00DD64E46@glevy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=response


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major blind
rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative

to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it would mean that
their technology trainers would have to be familiar with two totally
different operating systems, program sets and keyboard commands. Plus,
the

rehab center would have to purchase and maintain two totally incompatible
groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies
simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients
for

jobs in the business world which relies heavily on Windows computers, not
Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology trainer at the rehab
center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to learn how to use a Mac ,
I

would have to do it on my own. This particular agency has had a
long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all their hardware
from
them. So naturally, their clients only receive training on Windows
machines. To their credit, they did offer me a choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I was
totally

unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:31:50 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0274EBE5515F457E87789ECC09AED319@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response


Hi,


DBS in Texas started trainers testing on apple and I devices in July. I
know

because I took the I device test. I plann to take the apple test in the
future.


From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal



Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major
blind

rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it
would mean that their technology trainers would have to be familiar with
two totally different operating systems, program sets and keyboard
commands. Plus, the rehab center would have to purchase and maintain
two

totally incompatible groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money,
which

most rehab agencies simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab
is to train clients for jobs in the business world which relies heavily
on

Windows computers, not Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology
trainer at the rehab center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to
learn how to use a Mac , I would have to do it on my own. This
particular

agency has had a long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all
their hardware from them. So naturally, their clients only receive
training on Windows machines. To their credit, they did offer me a
choice

of screen readers: JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my
training, I was totally unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS.
I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing
that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a
Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed
version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:32:42 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <017101cd9a72$38e5dcb0$aab19610$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You can relax when Hell freezes over. (LOLLOLLOL)
I am in the same boat. I have had JAWS since 1993 or so and I feel that,
at
this point, I have paid enough.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:20 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who
can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I first
got
it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it comes to
paying
for something like the current price of an upgrade by the cost of $500
and
paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly upgrade, I'm
paying
twice for the cost of this program. When you think of it already paid
that
price then some. You would think that if I've been a customer since
windows
3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly going to windows 7 When
can I relax and just enjoy all the features that are suppose to work!
I'll
sign something if it means that something is going to be done concerning
product improvements. Also just think of all these that are in business
to
make a sizable profit. Maybe there also needs to be a board of stock
holders like they have for other companies. If we were stockholders, we
would be able to determine what the policies or something since they
would
be accountable to us! You see, think of all the fortune 500 companies
who
are publicly traded, you've noticed that these companies are accountable
to
there stock holders. That is something that no one has addressed. When
companies are accountable to stockholders, they are more likely to listen
to
people who have a steak in the future of the company.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chairman Mal" <chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a
solution, Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy
their product. I should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time
being, but my point is that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment
with respect to customer relations. A petition mentioning other
products may give them pause to think. I know other vendors have
their own issues but we need to approach this as a serious effort to
solve an outstanding issue with Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to
reward them with a free SMA to fix a product that should already be turn
key ready. Where's the quid pro quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be
willing to sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to
do anything. It just underscores how serious the problem has become
to the people Freedom Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base
of
customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable,
bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs left or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done, and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date: 09/23/12

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------------------------------

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End of Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
***********************************
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Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18

douglas richard dexheimer
 

Where's the new reply? All I can find is the long thread of earlier messages.

Douglas Richard Dexheimer
Chief of Braille Productions
Born-Again Productions
The Friedman Place, Apt.308
5527 N. Maplewood Ave.
Chicago, IL 60625
773-901-7306
cell 913-244-0612
drichardd@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Turner" <doogiepower@gmail.com>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18


On 9/24/12, jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com <jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com> wrote:
Send Jfw mailing list submissions to
jfw@lists.the-jdh.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
jfw-request@lists.the-jdh.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
jfw-owner@lists.the-jdh.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Jfw digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
2. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
3. SMA: Their Value? (Farfar Carlson)
4. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
5. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
6. Re: A Modest Proposal (Richard Holloway)
7. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)
8. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
9. Re: SMA: Their Value? (Graham Smith)
10. Re: A Modest Proposal (David Ingram)
11. RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14 (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
12. Re: A Modest Proposal (Chris Smart)
13. RE: Jaws 13 with XP (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
14. Re: A Modest Proposal (Soronel Haetir)
15. RE: Replying to sender instead of the list. (Adrian Spratt)
16. RE: Room For One More (Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS))
17. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
18. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gary King)
19. Re: A Modest Proposal (Farfar Carlson)
20. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
21. Re: A Modest Proposal (Gerald Levy)
22. Re: A Modest Proposal (Shawn Keen)
23. RE: A Modest Proposal (Cy Selfridge)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:57:17 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5FDE6995-480A-4FE3-9DF9-ACE253E9FBA6@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but they
still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible stuff.
I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the market
works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh, I
though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by the
cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think of
it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been a
customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of all
these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of all
the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is something
that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak in
the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for scripts
that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product. I
should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to fix
a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done, and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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09/23/12

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09/23/12


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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:58:23 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <64e3aa$afnmjo@fipsb01.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:01:51 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <2FC2F8B0C8414D00A7E7CC361B9E02F9@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems and

web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works for

them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source (fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:07 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <45D7CD34661B4D709ECBB3AE3FD494D5@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good point -- in a nutshell, if we all were to stop purchasing JAWS and
stick with our current version, FS would notice in about a year that
something was wrong. However on our list, do we represent more than 5% of
the user community? I think not. so our voice would likely not make much of

a sound. A petition across all user communities and lists, and International

in scope would d be needed to have a more significant effect.

Then we all sit back and wait to see when FS wakes up.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:57
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I'm not quite following your point. When we buy a copy of JAWS we're not
buying stock in Freedom Scientific. If I'm not mistaken, Freedom isn't
publicly traded, but it really doesn't matter. I've spent a fortune with
Microsoft and Apple, but I don't have any stock to show for it. I have
bought countless thousands of Cokes from the Coke Company as well., but they

still don't answer to me or send a dividend check.

With that said, I tried "New Coke" when it came out. Nasty, horrible stuff.

I tried a free sample the day it came out, and except for a few ACCIDENTAL
purchases in restaurants, I never bought the actual product one time
intentionally. Turns out a lot of people hated the product, so the product
vanished due (largely) to a lack of consumer support. That's how the market

works, and that's about the limit of control we have over Freedom
Scientific, or Microsoft, or Apple.

As for the shameful notion that Freedom is trying to make a profit? Gosh, I

though that was sort of the point of ALL "for profit" corporations. Maybe
others on the list are different, but I actually intend to make a profit
when I do work for others too...

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:20 AM, David Ingram wrote:

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I
first got it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it
comes to paying for something like the current price of an upgrade by the

cost of $500 and paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly
upgrade, I'm paying twice for the cost of this program. When you think of

it already paid that price then some. You would think that if I've been a

customer since windows 3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly
going to windows 7 When can I relax and just enjoy all the features that
are suppose to work! I'll sign something if it means that something is
going to be done concerning product improvements. Also just think of all

these that are in business to make a sizable profit. Maybe there also
needs to be a board of stock holders like they have for other companies.
If we were stockholders, we would be able to determine what the policies
or something since they would be accountable to us! You see, think of all

the fortune 500 companies who are publicly traded, you've noticed that
these companies are accountable to there stock holders. That is something

that no one has addressed. When companies are accountable to
stockholders, they are more likely to listen to people who have a steak in

the future of the company.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chairman Mal"
<chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for scripts

that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a solution,
Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy their product. I

should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time being, but my point is
that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment with respect to customer
relations. A petition mentioning other products may give them pause to
think. I know other vendors have their own issues but we need to
approach this as a serious effort to solve an outstanding issue with
Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to reward them with a free SMA to fix

a product that should already be turn key ready. Where's the quid pro
quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs

left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done, and

I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:05:52 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <51874C2BF06D4E4FA5AFC28C9BD9C375@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:06:49 -0400
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <CE49C0B6-0758-44A7-8D6A-182C91BB57FD@gopbc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them. Would't
it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful when
used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective of
all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a teacher
reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input available
at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't understand a
word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to learn
and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start with only
minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones at
first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not asthey
age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be productive;;
yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear better
simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were on
the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options will
not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all how
good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I believe
will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get
it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:14:08 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <013501cd9a67$3f1e45f0$bd5ad1d0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Absolutely agree.
It would be nice to just do an install and have everything (or at least
99%)
work as advertised. (LOLLOLLOL)
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Drew Hunthausen
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

I also totally agree with this; We don't need new features, we just need
the
ones we have to work properly and for Jaws to keep up with advancing
technology. Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:40 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Ed,

I would sign such a petition, and would give up one SMA (a JAWS major
revision number) if that is what it would take for FS to push out a
revision
of JAWS with no new features and only fixes to past bugs.

What's the next step?


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 17:22
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and, doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features which,
it

seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking about
a

request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed

known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it to

do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users sign a

petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by thousands

of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the

petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little hope

that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone the

ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign (and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are details

I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE

IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:31 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0b864d$af495r@fipsb03.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



Obviously Karen has lots of spair time to hang out on mailing lists
of compeditors products.

At 11:05 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
OMG. Is she still lurking? What a terrible waste of CPU processing.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:58
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


I thought you already had, Karen?



At 09:40 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i
think i will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Pierson"
<joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they
have been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad
behavior. They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen
reader for the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the
screen reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users
in revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader
that will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ...
Well I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate
yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
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REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED
OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:23:52 -0400
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: SMA: Their Value?
Message-ID: <B05B13337FC24C91A173ABF1A388C774@Graham>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Well, this is my exact point.

I thought you understood my meaning, we are paying for all these sma's
purely to keep up to date but not advancing much. I blame Microsoft, they
keep changing their operating system and Jaws have to adapt to it. Its all

about progress and at the end of the day money.

I for one would hate to be stuck back at XP with Jaws 7 but at the time it
was doing the same as an update system today.

This is how I see it anyway.

Graham


Graham


-----Original Message-----
From: Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:01
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: SMA: Their Value?

Only real value is that FS keeps up with the changing operating systems and
web browsers -- well, sort of. In any case no one needs an SMA if they're
willing to stick with an old operating system and web browser that works
for
them. Moving forward with improvements in the mainstream market means we
must also move forward with JAWS if we are to be relevant.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Smith" <g.smith577@rogers.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 08:52
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Must admit I do not like the idea of all these sma's I have paid for over
the years and if I am honest Jaws is doing about the same for me now as it
has been for several years, but in fs's support has jaws 14 not been about
windows 8? most of us have not even looked at that yet with jaws and must
have taken quite a bit of development I would imagine.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the
product in the first place, we need to insist to those who are
doing the purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is
buying computer equipment for blind folks and they find out that
most people would be served by a Mac, for example, even a Mac Mini,
which would save them over a grand per computer, they might
consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source (fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:29:37 -0500
From: "David Ingram" <dingram269@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <5267E5C5006C4238955BA0F180EE2DC3@david1c2ee352a>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems and
depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned that wouldn't

be an option considering the costs of embossers these days. If i was
restricted to learning braille then storing documents would be a problem.
Storage space and what if i wanted to use a dictionary, or an encyclopedia
or a thesaurus. I like the ability to get books in electronic format. The

reason being is because even thou i have to wait until a book is available

in electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for books
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough, some will
unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will help them. Would't

it be be better to learn braille before that becomes an imperative need?
There is also the notion that reading and listening are two entirely
different kinds of learning (no matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite useful when

used in conjunction with a refreshable braille display. Using a screen
reader in conjunction with a braille display can be the most effective of

all, much like students in a class reading along in a text book as a
teacher reads the text aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input

available at the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you start to
learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you, even if you start
with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including minor ones
at first must at least be able to work and hear whatJAWS is saying
sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw ill become a bigger piece
oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with limited
synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear distinctly,
maybe should realize that there are people who cannot or will not asthey

age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and hear better

simply because a companywill not invest in what blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers persons
whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and 8 were
on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more synthesizer
options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think I speak
for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer options will

not
make the product better. What will actually make the product more
usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better functionality. After
all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at all how

good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I believe

will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the voices

in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't
a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we get
better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the
purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to

fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas,
it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it
has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get

it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on
the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who
signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their
money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to
sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to
spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader --
no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have
little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed.
Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be
willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm
putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.

I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete

this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:46 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DB3@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sounds for all the world like what happened between 10 and 11. If so,
be prepared to completely uninstall the beta, and reinstall 13, choosing
the repair option. That'll reinstate the old behavior.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:54 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

Hmm, could you remove and re-install WordPerfect?
Something must have gotten hozed up with JAWS 14 install.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of john.falter
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:28 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: WordPerfect problems after JAWS.14

After I installed JAWS14 beta
I couldn't use WordPerfect 12.
Up and Down arrows spoke nothing.
Right and left arrows spoke only one character at a time.
Insert plus 2 spoke nothing.
Shift plus end said selected but trying cut or paste said not selected.
And the date was not placed on the clipboard.
It was not possible to route the JAWS cursor to the PC cursor.
Font seemed to be reported correctly.
I dropped back to 13 and got the same WordPerfect results.
I uninstalled.JAWS14 but got the same WordPerfect results on JAWS.13
and JAWS.9.
I sent three bug reports to FS.
What else can I do?
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:33:57 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <d8eccc$1m4tig@fipsb02.cogeco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed



I don't think Richard or I were talking about embossed books, but
using a refreshable display.

At 11:29 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Whether they know it or not braille will not solve their problems
and depending on what they have to do as far as work is concerned
that wouldn't be an option considering the costs of embossers
these days. If i was restricted to learning braille then storing
documents would be a problem. Storage space and what if i wanted
to use a dictionary, or an encyclopedia or a thesaurus. I like
the ability to get books in electronic format. The reason being
is because even thou i have to wait until a book is available in
electronic format, it would take a lot longer if i had to wait for
books
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holloway"
<rholloway@gopbc.org>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Exactly. And if people loosing their hearing wait long enough,
some will unfortunately reach a state where NO screen reader will
help them. Would't it be be better to learn braille before that
becomes an imperative need? There is also the notion that reading
and listening are two entirely different kinds of learning (no
matter your age).

There are many reasons to learn braille, and JAWS can be quite
useful when used in conjunction with a refreshable braille
display. Using a screen reader in conjunction with a braille
display can be the most effective of all, much like students in a
class reading along in a text book as a teacher reads the text
aloud to the class. If you have both kinds of input available at
the same time, one can reinforce the other. If you can't
understand a word, you get a clue from the braille and vice-versa.

I mean no disrespect to older JAWS users, but the sooner you
start to learn and use Braille, the better it will be for you,
even if you start with only minimal braille skills.

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

you could always learn braille.



At 08:36 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
A better product is necessary.
However, many who are developing hearing issues including
minor ones at first must at least be able to work and hear
whatJAWS is saying sinceafter all thosewith hearing issuesw
ill become a bigger piece oftheJAWS users as the Baby Boomers age. .
Another manufacturer is offering a much wider choice
ofsynthesizers.
If the ADA means anything, we should not face barriers with
limited synthesizer options.
I am not asking for perfection.
I am pleadingfor better options.
Those fortunate enough to be able to work quickly and hear
distinctly, maybe should realize that there are people who
cannot or will not asthey age.
Older people buy JAWS.

Now thatI must use Windows 7, it is much harder for me to be
productive;; yetI paid big bucks for
synthesizers that do notwork in 7 but work in Window Euyes.

We do need a better product.

But please do not tell me that moving to a new operating
system should
take away from purchasers those options to work better and
hear better simply because a companywill not invest in what
blind people use--
synthesizers that we access via the sense of hearing.

Again, JAWS needs to be improved.

I respect your beliefs.

Federal money is subsidizing a screen reader which now offers
persons whowill develop hearing issues many fewer options.

That makes me really upset. The company knew that Windows 7 and
8 were on the way.

yet another screen reader manufacturer offers many more
synthesizer options.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ" <grouloc@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


In the message below, you asked the question "How else can one
use the
computer unless we get better synthesizer options?). I think
I speak for
most folks on the list when I say that better synthesizer
options will not
make the product better. What will actually make the product
more usable
for all of us is one in which we can see better
functionality. After all,
if the screen reader doesn't work well, what does it matter at
all how good
it sounds?

DJ


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many
training center
asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the
synthesizer voices
for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one
I believe will
get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that
the voices in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I
fear the loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the
computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue, how else can one usethe computer unless we
get better
synthesizer options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message ----- From: "Marquette, Ed"
<Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for
the purpose of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this
and, doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom
Scientific to fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new
features which,
it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the
program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that
means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm
talking about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features
until it has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom
Scientific to get it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands
of users sign
a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to
ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition
is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom
Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those
who signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put
their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able
to sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it
were, to spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen
reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I
have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be
fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would
be willing to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called
Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students
protesting a student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students'
throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by
one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly,
there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is
off-topic. I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's
do something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT
BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT,
AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise
protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000
and delete this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536




------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:37:28 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2DC2@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Depends upon what you mean by protect. The only thing we use
screensavers for around here is to prevent snooping, LCD's are not
subject to burn-in, and that's what screensavers were designed to
prevent.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Jim L
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:13 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Jaws 13 with XP

Yeah I don't doubt this will work and know how to turn off screensaver
but what if I leave my PC unattended for awhile what will protect my
monitor?




-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Mike B.
Sent: Sunday, 23 September 2012 10:04 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Jaws 13 with XP


Hi Jim,

Running a screen saver will make Jaws act pretty weird, at least from
what I've noticed. I always set the screen saver option to none to
avoid focus issues. Go to control panel / Display / Screen Saver Tab,
to make the adjustment if you would like to give it a try, just to see
if it helps. HTH Take care. Mike This email was sent from our,
iGasSucking460Powered1969Mach1!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim L
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:34 AM
Subject: Jaws 13 with XP


Heya folks,

Am running windows XP Home and Jaws 13 seems to work fine , nice and
smooth
and slick till either my screensaver comes on or my monitor comes back
from
sleep mode and every thing slows down, tabbing around is delayed and
lagging
and in the end I need to reboot. My screen resolution is 1024by 768 as
I've
always had for years Is there any fix for this or something I can
disable in
Jaws feature in 13 to still be able to run my screen saver and protect
my
monotor?

Any help will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim


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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:46:21 -0800
From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID:
<CAG5j88oMBSaAFbXFdRaS=SufmqXQNpmA9UR9m7CYCQQ_8SheeA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The natural voices can only go so fast, and usable speed wise it's
quite a bit lower than eloquence, no matter how much power you throw
at it. However, I likely have the most hardware in a single box and
by the time you get to what I have they are in fact plenty responsive.
I have an 8 core Xeon running at 3ghz system with 32gb ram as my
desktop system.

The SAPI5 voices from Ivona can go a fair bit faster than the solo
direct (or whatever other interface nuance chooses to slap on top of
it)but I find them less comfortable to use. Just the quirks in
enunciation. The book port plus has what I would call a
"semi-mechanical" synthesizer, and that I actually find very
comfortable to use., even with the speed increased to 4 or 5.

(That is one problem we face, every system I've seen measures speed in
different terms so it's no so easy to do a direct comparison
On 9/24/12, John Sherrer <john@whitecane.org> wrote:
I have tried the Human like voices and found them slow and not very
responsive. But the electronic voices can go fast and are ddresponsive.
It
seems to me that the extra harmonics on the human sounding voices take a
lot more processing power to generate, maybe the problem will be solved
with
more processing power? If someone on this list using a 12 core processor
tried the human voices? I am not an expert on programming, or how the
voices are generated.
I noticed that when I downloaded the JAWS beta that they offer 64 bit
voices, has anyone tried them or do we have to wait for the official
release?
John Sherrer

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of ptusing
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Hi Ed,
I am passing along your message.

For over 2 years, I have contacted every Lighthouse and many training
center

asking that they ask Freedom Scientific to improve on the synthesizer
voices

for clarity and for faster reading speeds as almost every one I believe
will

get to that age when hearing problems start. As several blindness
conditions can bring along hearing difficulties, I ask that the voices
in
JAWS 14 survive. I will have to work into my late 70's and I fear the
loss
of ability to use a screen reader and loss of productivity.

Afterall, what senses do we use to access the computer? Ifthat isn't a
disability issue,
how else can one usethe computer unless we get better synthesizer
options?
We need improvements.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of

highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,

other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which,

it seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems that there is no way effectively to get a message that means
something to Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about
a request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign

a petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice
an SMA, in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend
one SMA just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no
jazzy gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let
alone the ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing
to
sign (and to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I

cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
Thank you.
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:56:37 -0400
From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@AdrianSpratt.com>
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.
Message-ID: <CD776AA925C64971AC5A51B5A62B8F4E@ADRIAN01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It works just about every time for me now in Outlook 2003, though it didn't
start out that way. I speculate that the longer the list of contacts, the
more reliable it becomes. I suspect that if I try to reply to a sender I've
never emailed before, it wouldn't work. In that case, I'd just set up a
reply as usual, then arrow down for the sender's address. It isn't always
there, but usually it is.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:56 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Yes,

works 50% of the time wiht Windows Mail. The scripting is rather funky, I
think.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "david" <davidwhitehead1957@cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 06:44
Subject: RE: Replying to sender instead of the list.


Hello there;
Well, to reply privately to a message from the list,
The keystroke is,
Shift+insert+r,
However,
This doesn't work with outlook2010,
Outlook2007,
Not sure about windows live mail,
I think it does work in outlook express.



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Michael Capelle
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:29 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Re: Replying to sender instead of the list.

just press control-r, you might be hitting the reply to all option.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Mote
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:18 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support mailing list
Subject: Replying to sender instead of the list.

Hi folks! Need to know how to reply to the sender of a message here on the
list instead of the entire list.
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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:03:26 -0400
From: "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: Room For One More
Message-ID:
<51B63D642D83CF44AE7588F8A4866CED23BC2E2E@AGMBX03.eas.ds.ky.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I don't think the initial message called for this group to take up
programming. However, most of the readers, going back to the mid
1980's, sprang from a desire to build a better mouse trap. After all,
there were other , and better, readers already in the market when Ted
Henter had his brainstorm. If any enterprising types want to jump in
and try their luck against FS and GWMicro, let 'em have at it. However,
I think we all agree it will take a consortium. I know at least one
talented programmer who tried it single-handed, but the challenge was
more than he could handle.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cristobal
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 12:52 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Room For One More

It's easy to bash companies like FS, but the truth is that it takes lots
of skill and resources to develop and manage products such as these.
Abilities that many of us as end users of Jaws for example simply don't
have and unless we wanted to and had the time and means to undertake the
God knows how much time and effort to obtain them aren't going to do so.

Frustration with a product and making one's displeasure known to the
company is completely valid and reasonable. But ringing the bell and
calling all computer users to cyber arms to form a rag tag peasant army
of programmers as a solution to those valid frustrations and complaints
is quite simply unfeasible and not based in reality.

I would be more than happy to sign a petition and perhaps other
organized means to manifest the overall displeasure with certain aspects
of Jaws and whatnot, but the other...? Yeah, I think I'll pass. I like
to complain about my cell phone from time to time, but I'm not about to
go busting out my imaginary techy wizz/engineer's hat with my other cell
phone using acquaintances to start tinkering with trying to create a
phone from scratch whenall I want is perhaps a better user experience in
some parts and bug fixes in others. I just use a cell phone. I don't
need to know how to build one from scratch.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Farfar Carlson
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:49 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: Room For One More

Peter,

I question your common sense. How do you propose to organize us, a group
of users, to become programmers and develop a screen reader from the
ground up?

I for one have no experience, so you'll have to excuse me from your
plan.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2@satx.rr.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 20:34
Subject: Re: Room For One More


Hello everyone,

This would need to be a team effort. Let's do something meaningful such
as
develop another screen reading application rather than waste our time
with
junk like petitions.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido Corona" <aloysiusq@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: Room For One More


Uhrn.... Peter.... Are you volunteering your talent?

Guido
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On
Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:28 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Room For One More

Good evening everyone,

There's always the competition route. The blind community has
talented
programmers who could develop a new screen reading package that would
have
all of the features and power of JAWS including long-needed features to
address problems not currently remedied by any screen reader. The
ability to
read captcha characters falls in this category. If the application is
designed from the ground up by those fully aware of JFW's short-comings
would
be in an excellent position to create a new leading-edge screen reading
system that would be free of most bugs and priced more cheaply.
Never mind the petition. There's always room for one more screen reading
package so why not create one to give blind computer users another
choice
when it comes to screen access technology.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: A Modest Proposal


I have unashamedly borrowed the subject of this message for the purpose
of
highlighting issues that have so often been vented on this and,
doubtless,
other lists.
Many of us have talked about putting pressure on Freedom Scientific to
fix
bugs and take care of known issues before introducing new features
which, it
seems, introduce bugs almost randomly through the program. Alas, it
seems
that there is no way effectively to get a message that means something
to
Freedom Scientific.

What if we, the users, called for a feature moratorium? I'm talking
about a
request that Freedom Scientific introduce no new features until it has
fixed
known issues.
Now, how would we bring pressure to bear on Freedom Scientific to get it
to
do that?
One way is an old-fashioned petition drive. When thousands of users
sign a
petition demanding action, that's hard for any company to ignore.
Now, let's raise the stakes a little. What if this petition is on the
Internet such that searches for terms like "JAWS," "Freedom Scientific,"
"screen reader," and the like would bring up a petition signed by
thousands
of users demanding a stable screen reader?
OK, let's raise the stakes even higher. Let's say that those who signed
the
petition felt so strongly that they were willing to put their money
where
their mouth is? In other words, what if we were able to sacrifice an
SMA,
in effect, saying that we would be willing, as it were, to spend one SMA
just to get a stable, reliable, dependable screen reader -- no jazzy
gimmicks that introduce bugs.
Personally, if JAWS 14 is built on the JAWS 13 platform, I have little
hope
that even half the bugs introduced in JAWS 13 will be fixed. Let alone
the
ones that existed before. Nevertheless, I would be willing to sign
(and
to start) such a petition.
There is such a petition site on the Internet. It is called Change.Org.
One of my clients found a petition signed by students protesting a
student
debit-card plan that a number of schools cram down students' throats.
Well, there is nothing worse than a petition signed by one. I'm putting
this idea out there for comment and refinement. Clearly, there are
details
I have not thought about. Comment is invited.
I hope some self-appointed moderator does not claim this is off-topic.
I
cannot think of anything more JAWS-related.
What do you think? I say, instead of just complaining, let's do
something
about it!


I. Edward Marquette
Direct Dial: 816.502.4646
Mobile: 816.812.0088
Google Voice: 408.692.5640
Facsimile: 816.960.0041
Kutak Rock LLP
1010 Grand Boulevard
Suite 500
Kansas City, MO 64106
ed.marquette@kutakrock.com




ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE
IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
applicable law. If you have received this
message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this
E-mail message.
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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:59:47 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <37868E7B3EFD4D5FA19D017ACB341D8C@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need donations

to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating customers

as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the seriousness

of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:13:49 -0500
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <D32D720285C94A5197C9E847761EC4FC@Gary0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although it
worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't going
to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send out
email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that the
screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating system

without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that tell how
blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:17:57 -0600
From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <C00BD1DD1A3548DCA2FA5BFC5573476F@symmetricom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gary,

Don't count on it. She's a shoot-and-run type who just likes to stir up
muck.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 09:59
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Karen,
When you do finally make this big move to NVDA, be sure to donate money to
the project. Even though the screen reader is free, they do need donations
to keep the project going. I'm sure you'll be willing to put your money
where your mouth is!

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Hughes" <khughes8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


john, u are so right. jaws has milked their own customers dry. i think i
will go to n v d a for a while. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:58 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I believe that putting the cost of an SMA toward something they have
been
avoiding (in a very disrespectful manner) is rewarding bad behavior.
They
have taken plenty of money on an annual basis and been treating
customers
as
non-entities since well you fill in the version number.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:43 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the seriousness
of
the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that,
but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly
pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered anyway,
that
sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a screen reader for
the
first time or even if you were recommending to an agency the screen
reader
to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go with a product with users in
revolt?
Well, that's the idea. Right now, JAWS is the only screen reader that
will
do what I need done, and I'm grateful for that. It is just ... Well
I've
said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard
it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have
received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and
delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com




------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:21:28 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <03ADC6CF955C4AA88DADE68D70BD6337@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

Hi,



Texas is about to start providing mac's and I devices.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@bellsouth.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Some one on the list recently said that he loved his Mac, but although it

worked perfectly well for home use, he couldn't use it for working with
complex documents at his job. As long as this is the case, VR isn't going

to be interested in buying Macs for its clients. They're not buying
computers for people to sit at home and play on the Internet and send out

email messages to lists like this one.

I've listened to a number of podcasts about Macs, and it is nice that the

screen reader is free and that blind people can install the operating
system without assistance, but I would like to hear some podcasts that
tell how blind people are earning a living using a Mac.

Gary King
w4wkz@bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:26:04 -0400
From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <903AE0784B494D81A0EBBAD00DD64E46@glevy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=response


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major blind
rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an alternative

to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it would mean that
their technology trainers would have to be familiar with two totally
different operating systems, program sets and keyboard commands. Plus, the

rehab center would have to purchase and maintain two totally incompatible
groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies
simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients for

jobs in the business world which relies heavily on Windows computers, not
Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology trainer at the rehab
center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to learn how to use a Mac , I

would have to do it on my own. This particular agency has had a
long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all their hardware from
them. So naturally, their clients only receive training on Windows
machines. To their credit, they did offer me a choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I was totally

unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of users

who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the first

place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for blind

folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per computer,

they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything. It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12


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--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:31:50 -0500
From: "Shawn Keen" <shawn.keen@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <0274EBE5515F457E87789ECC09AED319@ownerpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response


Hi,


DBS in Texas started trainers testing on apple and I devices in July. I know

because I took the I device test. I plann to take the apple test in the
future.


From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@verizon.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal



Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major blind

rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it
would mean that their technology trainers would have to be familiar with
two totally different operating systems, program sets and keyboard
commands. Plus, the rehab center would have to purchase and maintain two

totally incompatible groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money, which

most rehab agencies simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab
is to train clients for jobs in the business world which relies heavily on

Windows computers, not Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology
trainer at the rehab center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to
learn how to use a Mac , I would have to do it on my own. This particular

agency has had a long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all
their hardware from them. So naturally, their clients only receive
training on Windows machines. To their credit, they did offer me a choice

of screen readers: JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my
training, I was totally unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS.
I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the

first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that

we want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac,

for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer, they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.

No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE
PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law.
If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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_______________________________________________
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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:32:42 -0600
From: "Cy Selfridge" <cyselfridge@comcast.net>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal
Message-ID: <017101cd9a72$38e5dcb0$aab19610$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You can relax when Hell freezes over. (LOLLOLLOL)
I am in the same boat. I have had JAWS since 1993 or so and I feel that, at
this point, I have paid enough.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Ingram
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:20 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Here's the problem that I have with this approach, there are many people
who
can say as I will that I actually paid for the program from when I first
got
it until I paid for the last sma. I have a problem when it comes to paying
for something like the current price of an upgrade by the cost of $500 and
paying also the price of an sm now in order to properly upgrade, I'm paying
twice for the cost of this program. When you think of it already paid that
price then some. You would think that if I've been a customer since
windows
3.1 and now we're at windows xp home and possibly going to windows 7 When
can I relax and just enjoy all the features that are suppose to work! I'll
sign something if it means that something is going to be done concerning
product improvements. Also just think of all these that are in business to
make a sizable profit. Maybe there also needs to be a board of stock
holders like they have for other companies. If we were stockholders, we
would be able to determine what the policies or something since they would
be accountable to us! You see, think of all the fortune 500 companies who
are publicly traded, you've noticed that these companies are accountable to
there stock holders. That is something that no one has addressed. When
companies are accountable to stockholders, they are more likely to listen
to
people who have a steak in the future of the company.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chairman Mal" <chairmanmal@earthlink.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Greetings from Austin,
Freedom Scientific has a sad history of responding to customer
complaints, even very big customers such as the Social Security
Administration. SSA asked FS to finally address their needs for
scripts that would work for blind employees. Rather than negotiate a
solution, Freedom Scientific went to Congress to force SSA to buy
their product. I should say that SSA seems satisfied for the time
being, but my point is that FS needs a serious attitude adjustment
with respect to customer relations. A petition mentioning other
products may give them pause to think. I know other vendors have
their own issues but we need to approach this as a serious effort to
solve an outstanding issue with Freedom Scientific. I'm reluctant to
reward them with a free SMA to fix a product that should already be turn
key ready. Where's the quid pro quo in this approach?
Regards,
Malcolm Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:01 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill in agency names here) and recommend that they support another
competing product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be
willing to sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to
do anything. It just underscores how serious the problem has become
to the people Freedom Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base
of
customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner,
to sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable,
bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of
SMAs left or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need done, and
I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE
OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date:
09/23/12


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5288 - Release Date: 09/23/12

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End of Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
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Re: A Modest Proposal

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

Yeah, I wish I had the 4 s. My 3 gs is kind of well, there. lol

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Russell
Solowoniuk
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:37 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

Amen, a voice of reason! Please folks, if you've never used an iPhone/iPad
don't be so quick to judge. Th