Date   

Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Dave...
 

Russell,

727 299-6153
johncarson@...
or
johnc@...

Escalation:
edamery@...

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 21:00
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


I'm not blaming John, just stating that he was the one I was dealing with.
All he had to do if he couldn't solve the issue was to let me know. That's
all, a simple email.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-21, at 7:22 AM, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@...> wrote:

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation,
or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if
the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the
real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Re: Jaws 13 with XP

Mike B. <mb69mach1@...>
 

Hi Jim,

Running a screen saver will make Jaws act pretty weird, at least from what
I've noticed. I always set the screen saver option to none to avoid focus
issues. Go to control panel / Display / Screen Saver Tab, to make the
adjustment if you would like to give it a try, just to see if it helps. HTH
Take care.
Mike
This email was sent from our, iGasSucking460Powered1969Mach1!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim L
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 2:34 AM
Subject: Jaws 13 with XP


Heya folks,

Am running windows XP Home and Jaws 13 seems to work fine , nice and smooth
and slick till either my screensaver comes on or my monitor comes back from
sleep mode and every thing slows down, tabbing around is delayed and lagging
and in the end I need to reboot.
My screen resolution is 1024by 768 as I've always had for years
Is there any fix for this or something I can disable in Jaws feature in 13
to still be able to run my screen saver and protect my monotor?

Any help will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim


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Jaws 13 with XP

Jim L
 

Heya folks,

Am running windows XP Home and Jaws 13 seems to work fine , nice and smooth
and slick till either my screensaver comes on or my monitor comes back from
sleep mode and every thing slows down, tabbing around is delayed and lagging
and in the end I need to reboot.
My screen resolution is 1024by 768 as I've always had for years
Is there any fix for this or something I can disable in Jaws feature in 13
to still be able to run my screen saver and protect my monotor?

Any help will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim


calendar viewing question

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

Hello:

Let me try to word this so the masses will understand me.

Does anyone know of any software accessible with jaws or any other screen
reader which will allow for a user mainly yourself, to say, "We have an
opening tomorrow or after viewing his schedule, it doesn't seem like he has
an opening until tomorrow.".

Hopefully, this made sense.

Thanks.



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Cursor Shape and IE9

Dani Pagador
 

Hi, Everyone.
I'm using Win7, JFW13.9yadayada, and IE9.
I know that in the Settings Center there's a way to get JFW to recognize
cursor shape. I've checked that box, applying that change to the default
settings, so for the most part know when there's an arrow or hour glass,
etc. But this doesn't seem to affect anything in IE. Is there anything else
I should be doing?
It'd be helpful to know when the cursor changes shape in IE. I click on a
link and it seems like it takes a while sometimes for the link to take
effect. My husband says the cursor appears to be spinning, so something
registers visually. But I get no verbal feedback from JFW so am not sure
sometimes if the keystroke has taken.
More Later,
Dani


Blind Tunes translators for iTunes needed for new language set

John Martyn <johnrobertmartyn@...>
 

Hi all,
Now that things have calmed down long enough, all the help guides and
hotkeys are updated along with all the spoken messages and menus. All
languages are needed for Blind Tunes. I will gladly put your name in the
special thanks section. As of yesterday, BlindTunes.net has had over 250,000
visits since April of 2011. This is nice to know, but it surely needs the
languages to be translated for international use. There are big plans for
Blind Tunes and I look forward to bringing iTunes closer to better
accessibility by default. Make your contribution to the project and help out
your fellow blind person. No programming experience is needed. Please
contact me at:
Support@...
Thanks to all,
John Martyn


Re: winzip

W K Gorman <wkg@...>
 

Yes, I am using the latest version of Winzip with the latest production build of JAWS under Win XP Pro with no problems.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: winzip


I've been using 7zip and Winrar for years, rather than Winzip.


At 02:32 PM 9/22/2012, you wrote:
Is any one using the latest version of Winzip successfully?
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Re: Off Topic

john.falter
 

Neither is all this bitching about FS!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Homuth" <james@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: Off Topic


My advice for you, good sir, is to take this question to something like the
BlindTech mailing list, since this isn't really applicable to the list's
topic.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Philip Anderson
Sent: September 22, 2012 10:02 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: Off Topic

Good afternoon

I was wondering if you maybe able to help

Regrettably, I have lost the password for the admin account on my laptop and
was wondering if anybody knows what the quick fix solution is?

I'm currently using Windows 7 and have sighted help on hand.


Many thanks in anticipation

Kind regards

Philip



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Re: winzip

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

I've been using 7zip and Winrar for years, rather than Winzip.


At 02:32 PM 9/22/2012, you wrote:
Is any one using the latest version of Winzip successfully?
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
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winzip

john.falter
 

Is any one using the latest version of Winzip successfully?
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Re: in response to anearlier post

Jon Pierson <joncpierson@...>
 

Hi,
That was my point that perhaps they see the money trail as bigger or maybe
that's not fair to them but no matter what the problem over there (and
obviously there are a few) they need to get back to their customers and fix
their flagging reputation.
I've had a bone to pick with them over their at first telling us that folks
would get the upgrade to Vista, than adding the parenthetical, but only if
you have a contract. That's quite an expensive by-the-way and I believe that
move wasn't close to being honest and fair to the users.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of William Sallander
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:33 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: in response to anearlier post

To Mr. Pierson

Who ever carries the purse strings is only part of the equation.
Since I am the end user, I'm the one that needs to report issues with any
piece of software, especially screen readers no matter the publisher.
If it affects my job in any matter what so ever, it is unacceptable and
should be dealt with in a timely manner. If I don't get any satisfaction,
then I need to be in contact with someone in or out of the organization to
get the problem resolved.
its an awful lot of money to payout either initially or by maintaining MSAs
to receive mediocre or no support at all. If a chain of command is broken,
it needs fixing.

To Ms. Milojevic

Getting a group involved is only a small part of the puzzle.
I speak as an end user that needs to use the whole system to perform my
duties on the job.
This means that not only the screen reader publishers need to be a little
more responsive in the way they handle technical issues, but also the
companies that publish commercial/mainstream software suites whether it is
available off the shelf or produced as a proprietary system for one company.

To Everyone Else reading this post

It is not my intention to keep this thread running here in this list. This
was only food for thought.
If Anyone wants to explore this further, you may contact me at
wsallander@....
Maybe between us, we can come up with what might be a possible solution to
all of this.
It is my belief that we all need to be a little more pro-active in
situations like this. If enough individuals get involved, we can make it
happen.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tanja Milojevic" <tanja631@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: in response to anearlier post


I agree on that. Join your local youth council if there is one for
disability related issues and spread the word to those companies. That's
the
only way they'll listen, if it comes from a place of authority.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of William Sallander
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:38 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: in response to anearlier post

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd
like
to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us
remember
that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains with this
and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know
of
a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my
second
point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these
issues
by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb
the
ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and
you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on
the
ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right
person,
we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they
consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked
patch
and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under
one
specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a
mailing
list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us
do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Soronel Haetir
 

Sure, my point is that I don't expect it to become a product capable
of displacing jaws. I might have thought that of NVDA, but after
talking with the folks in charge I became greatly disillusioned with
it.

On 9/22/12, Steve Boodram <steveboodram071@...> wrote:
Narrator has saved the day for me on many occasions especially when I must
install or re-install JAWS as the case may be.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Personally I was pretty happy with narrator being just good enough to
get a real screen reader installed. :)

On 9/22/12, Steve Boodram <steveboodram071@...> wrote:
I suspect Microsoft will get the message sooner or later and make Uncle
Narrator more friendly to us. In fact Windows 7, and I believe 8 have
already seen much improvement in this respect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope
to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing
me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will
stick
to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows.
It's
a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the
world
in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...>
wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they
can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions,
they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed
stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up
each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is
this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery
and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and
that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some
very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my
Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important
information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features
(the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's
needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area
--
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making
products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone
and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being
addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad,
We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line
of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else
in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually
include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the
student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then
press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers,
and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated
up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him.
This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John
to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June
too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in
the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today,
and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town
and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Re: transfer jaws dictionary file

Gary King
 

Stan,
Since you are using the same version of JAWS on both computers, you should be able to replace the Default JAWS dictionary file on your new computer with the one on your old computer without any problems. The JAWS dictionary is a file, not a script, so you shouldn't need to do anything but paste it into the appropriate folder and agree to the prompt to replace the file.

Gary King
w4wkz@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Holdeman" <sholdeman@...>
To: "JFW List" <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: transfer jaws dictionary file


Listers: I want to have my jaws dictionary changes effective in my new windows 7 computer. I am running jaws 13 on both old and new machines. Can't I just copy default.jdf from old machine and paste it to the appropriate enu folder in the new machine? I guess you then compile/save in the new?

Thanks, Stan

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Re: in response to anearlier post

William Sallander <wsallander@...>
 

To Mr. Pierson

Who ever carries the purse strings is only part of the equation.
Since I am the end user, I'm the one that needs to report issues with any piece of software, especially screen readers no matter the publisher.
If it affects my job in any matter what so ever, it is unacceptable and should be dealt with in a timely manner. If I don't get any satisfaction, then I need to be in contact with someone in or out of the organization to get the problem resolved.
its an awful lot of money to payout either initially or by maintaining MSAs to receive mediocre or no support at all. If a chain of command is broken, it needs fixing.

To Ms. Milojevic

Getting a group involved is only a small part of the puzzle.
I speak as an end user that needs to use the whole system to perform my duties on the job.
This means that not only the screen reader publishers need to be a little more responsive in the way they handle technical issues, but also the companies that publish commercial/mainstream software suites whether it is available off the shelf or produced as a proprietary system for one company.

To Everyone Else reading this post

It is not my intention to keep this thread running here in this list. This was only food for thought.
If Anyone wants to explore this further, you may contact me at wsallander@....
Maybe between us, we can come up with what might be a possible solution to all of this.
It is my belief that we all need to be a little more pro-active in situations like this. If enough individuals get involved, we can make it happen.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tanja Milojevic" <tanja631@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: in response to anearlier post


I agree on that. Join your local youth council if there is one for
disability related issues and spread the word to those companies. That's the
only way they'll listen, if it comes from a place of authority.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of William Sallander
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:38 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: in response to anearlier post

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd like
to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us remember
that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains with this
and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know of
a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second
point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues
by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the
ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and
you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the
ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right person,
we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they
consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked patch
and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one
specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a mailing
list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us
do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Steve Boodram
 

Narrator has saved the day for me on many occasions especially when I must install or re-install JAWS as the case may be.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Soronel Haetir" <soronel.haetir@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Personally I was pretty happy with narrator being just good enough to
get a real screen reader installed. :)

On 9/22/12, Steve Boodram <steveboodram071@...> wrote:
I suspect Microsoft will get the message sooner or later and make Uncle
Narrator more friendly to us. In fact Windows 7, and I believe 8 have
already seen much improvement in this respect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick
to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's
a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world
in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they
can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up
each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT
INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR
THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date:
09/21/12

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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

well, I don't know if I would call CakeTalking very expensive, considering it comes with hundreds of pages of tutorial help. How much would it cots to get that level of hands-on support from a qualified trainer, using jSonar?

and, it all depends what your music student friend is required to do. Personally, when I was in college, I needed to complete theory assignments, counterpoint assignments, composition assignments, not to mention hand out parts for sighted folks to play. All of that needed to be on paper. If there's a way to do that on the Mac and have it look professional, let us know. I wasn't prepared to try to dictate a four-part fugue to some poor sighted transcriber.

Now that I'm teaching guitar part-time, I similarly need to produce things on paper for sighted students, and have control over what is actually on the page.




At 11:51 AM 9/22/2012, you wrote:
Oh that's interesting Chris, because this person is a music student
and he told me one can do much more music wise on a mac than one can
on windows, although, to be fair I think he was trying to use jaws
with the free scripts for cakewalk, because apparrently the cake talk
scripts are very expensive.

On 9/22/12, Chris Smart <csmart8@...> wrote:
As a musician, music teacher, and mixing and mastering engineer, I
rely daily on several applications that require extensive Jaws
scripting support to be rendered accessible. I can't do that with
any other screen reader on the market, PC or Mac. So, they will
continue to get my money as long as they are the only option for me
and the work that I do.

There are some people out here doing a lot more than reading
emails, using Google, or opening a pdf or two.



At 10:41 PM 9/21/2012, you wrote:
Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and
hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader
informing me on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will
stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are
changing rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to
Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really
good screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and
no charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in
the past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the
world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...>
wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that
they can get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader
of choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions,
they have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed
stream of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype
up each new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell
out money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely
nothing exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is
this really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric
Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think
that they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first
introduced. Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and
that is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges"
<llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'"
<jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made
some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added
some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers
remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous;
too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too
many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough
attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my
Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important
information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new
features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still
more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to
customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this
area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's
concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep
road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making
products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell
phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else
can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points
out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the
customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being
addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is
not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is
lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for
example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10
read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have
complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been
addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad,
We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet
functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a
while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian
Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's
unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last
line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one
else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment
banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the
developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten
years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the
man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with
exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have
plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been
having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks
that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to
me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my
database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the
ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually
include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the
student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that
hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move
to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at
least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search
field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and
then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field,
I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't
move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told
that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows
XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new
computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was
escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to
send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I
made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to
him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed
John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of
June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine
in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they
handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there
today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no
database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works
well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in
town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE
USED
OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING
OF ANY
ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT
INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A
TAXPAYER FOR
THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL
REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is
privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable
law. If
you have received this message in error, please notify the
sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date:
09/21/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date:
09/21/12


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--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


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--------------------------------------------------
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

Microsoft won't have to do anything really, until there is some legal requirement for them to do so.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apple finally got around to developing a screen reader because it was required if they wanted to continue dominating the educational marketplace.



At 10:44 AM 9/22/2012, you wrote:
I suspect Microsoft will get the message sooner or later and make Uncle Narrator more friendly to us. In fact Windows 7, and I believe 8 have already seen much improvement in this respect.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@...
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@...
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Jfw mailing list
Jfw@...
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@...
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT
INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR
THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@...
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date: 09/21/12

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date: 09/21/12


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Re: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 13

Emily Beckstein <nbeck18@...>
 

I want to unsubscribe.

-----Original Message-----
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On Behalf Of jfw-request@...
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:52 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Russell Solowoniuk)
2. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Russell Solowoniuk)
3. Re: in response to anearlier post (William Sallander)
4. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Russell Solowoniuk)
5. Re: in response to anearlier post (Russell Solowoniuk)
6. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Russell Solowoniuk)
7. Re: in response to anearlier post (Russell Solowoniuk)
8. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Ari Damoulakis)
9. RE: in response to anearlier post (Jon Pierson)
10. RE: outlook 2010 (paul lemm)
11. RE: in response to anearlier post (Tanja Milojevic)
12. new thread (cecropia64@...)
13. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(cecropia64@...)
14. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Russell Solowoniuk)
15. Off Topic (Philip Anderson)
16. RE: Off Topic (James Homuth)
17. RE: Off Topic (Philip Anderson)
18. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Steve Boodram)
19. transfer jaws dictionary file (Stan Holdeman)
20. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Soronel Haetir)
21. RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Chris Smart)
22. RE: transfer jaws dictionary file (Marquette, Ed)
23. Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
(Ari Damoulakis)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:00:40 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <5E4F2DD7-B6D1-457A-BE8A-B851E0520FED@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm not blaming John, just stating that he was the one I was dealing with.
All he had to do if he couldn't solve the issue was to let me know. That's
all, a simple email.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-21, at 7:22 AM, Adrian Spratt <Adrian@...> wrote:

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation,
or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if
the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the
real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:02:20 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <75287D65-05CC-468E-9CF7-2696E4BC56E2@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm using Jaws 13, and tried the beta, but the problem hasn't been fixed.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-21, at 6:59 AM, "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@...> wrote:

What JAWS are you at now? 11 and 12 have serious problems with Access
2007 and later. Like you, I reported to Carson, and had concluded the
problem would not be resolved. Then came JAWS 13.

I used XP here at work until a few months ago, and still use it at home.
It just doesn't seem worth the trouble to format the hard drive just to
upgrade. That's my main concern about 14. I usually test run a brand
new JAWS at work, before turning it loose in a critical office
environment.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database. The
field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN number,
however, when students send me requests they usually include the dashes
in the ISBN. So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the
student's email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold
the archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in
Jaws 10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So, what
I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and then
copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still existed.
I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up the chain.
John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him a copy of my
database so they could look at the problem. I made a copy, removed all
relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This was last June. I
heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see if he found
anything out. No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end
of June too with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very frustrated
with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and don't,
therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 23:23:34 -0400
From: "William Sallander" <wsallander@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: in response to anearlier post
Message-ID: <63FF208E8EF64C708B39118AA850BC21@homepc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

This is just a suggestion

If all those emails didn't work in getting you a response, then maybe a
phone call or two might have been in order.
I had sort of the same experience and would have gone further if it hadn't
that the company I was working for didn't close out my department and lay me

off.
Yes, it is also my belief that all the money that is paid out in obtaining
this technology, better tech support or even better support all around
should be expected.
After all, we are consumers and we should get what we pay for, especially
when it involves gainful employment.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: in response to anearlier post


All valid points, but, I think the reason we come to this list to vent is
because we've tried your suggestions. I've been around this issue of the
search field in an Access table with FS since last February. I thought it
was last June, but I checked my email correspondence with FS at work today
and the issue was from February. I called FS. The tech support guy
wasn't able to help, so he escalated it. From there it got escalated to
the person I mentioned in an earlier post. The thing I find really
frustrating is that, after I took the time to strip down my database to
make sure that no student information was in the database, and sent it to
FS, in February, I heard absolutely nothing back. I was patient and
waited till March and then emailed again to check if any progress had been
made. Once again no response. I got busy and didn't deal with it again
till May, at which time I emailed John again. Once again no response. I
would have been happy if John had at least had the courtesy to email me
back and say, sorry, we can't fix this problem, or, sorry, but we're still
working on it. But, not to respond is totally unforgiveable. After all
the money I've spent on Jaws since Jaws version 1.21, I'd think I merit a
response at the very least, and a solution at best.

Thanks,

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-21, at 8:37 PM, William Sallander <wsallander@...> wrote:

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd
like to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us
remember that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains
with this and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know
of a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my
second point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these
issues by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to
climb the ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one
person and you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the
next rung on the ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right
person, we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if
they consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some
hacked patch and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under
one specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a
mailing list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the
problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of
us do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:24:48 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <00C437AF-4321-481E-9580-26E74448A014@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

No, not at all. It would just be nice to find more articles pertaining to
Jaws 13 and OpenBook 9, that's all.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:53 PM, Farfar Carlson <dgcarlson@...> wrote:

Russell,

Well, it may be that there are still users with 3.5 and Ruby. Do you want
to
cut them out of any support just because they don't need, or want to
update?

Archival databases are not uncommon.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 19:40
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


And, have you ever tried to search for a solution to a problem on the FS
knowledgebase? It's a joke! Why are we still geting results for Jaws
3.5?
And Ruby Openbook? Come on FS!

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:37 AM, Lisa Larges <llarges@...> wrote:

From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very good
new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one of its
biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances
of
underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals and
help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated 2009,
for
instance, and some important information was out of date); not enough
attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR feature is
great
in concept, but still more or less half-baked in actuality); failure to
respond to customer's needs (such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance,
but,
again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove to me
that
it is a company that values making products driven by customers' needs
and
responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never
have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their
issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all
then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly
reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references
in
MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I
can,
I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom
Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation,
or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance
can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if
the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the
real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:29:41 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: in response to anearlier post
Message-ID: <FEE927B9-69E6-4AD5-8B9E-3D968C30B976@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Absolutely, you're right, but mostly I'm dealing with these issues at work,
and, sometimes calling FS, one is on hold for a long time, and I don't wish
to tie up our phone line as I have 3 other colleagues who use the same line,
so, I just write a quick email and it saves me a lot of time. I may just
take you up on this and give FS a call in the near future.

Thanks,

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:23 PM, William Sallander <wsallander@...> wrote:

This is just a suggestion

If all those emails didn't work in getting you a response, then maybe a
phone call or two might have been in order.
I had sort of the same experience and would have gone further if it hadn't
that the company I was working for didn't close out my department and lay me
off.
Yes, it is also my belief that all the money that is paid out in obtaining
this technology, better tech support or even better support all around
should be expected.
After all, we are consumers and we should get what we pay for, especially
when it involves gainful employment.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Solowoniuk"
<rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: in response to anearlier post


All valid points, but, I think the reason we come to this list to vent is
because we've tried your suggestions. I've been around this issue of the
search field in an Access table with FS since last February. I thought it
was last June, but I checked my email correspondence with FS at work today
and the issue was from February. I called FS. The tech support guy wasn't
able to help, so he escalated it. From there it got escalated to the person
I mentioned in an earlier post. The thing I find really frustrating is
that, after I took the time to strip down my database to make sure that no
student information was in the database, and sent it to FS, in February, I
heard absolutely nothing back. I was patient and waited till March and then
emailed again to check if any progress had been made. Once again no
response. I got busy and didn't deal with it again till May, at which time
I emailed John again. Once again no response. I would have been happy if
John had at least had the courtesy to email me back and say, sorry, we can't
fix this problem, or, sorry, but we're still working on it. But, not to
respond is totally unforgiveable. After all the money I've spent on Jaws
since Jaws version 1.21, I'd think I merit a response at the very least, and
a solution at best.

Thanks,

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-21, at 8:37 PM, William Sallander <wsallander@...>
wrote:

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd
like to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us
remember that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains
with this and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know
of a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second
point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues
by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the
ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and
you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the
ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right
person, we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if
they consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked
patch and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one
specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a
mailing list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the
problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of
us do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:32:01 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <F468ADFE-8F58-470D-9360-7455F4C0C6A5@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced. Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 22:22:59 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: in response to anearlier post
Message-ID: <B97FB90C-D8C2-400E-A6F0-B6E7AC6F47E7@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi all,

I was the one who started this post, and, I'm afraid it got a bit out of
hand, on my part, I mean. When I checked out Jaws 14 and found out that the
issue with the search field in Access still hadn't been resolved, I became
angry and wanted to vent, which I did. I didn't mean for my messages to
become so negative, and, I apologize for that. William had some good
suggestions for more positive approaches to a solution, and, I will take
that to heart. Maybe if I contact FS before the beta cycle is done, the
issue may be resolved.

So, no more negative venting on this subject from me! LOL

Thanks to all for your patience.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:37 PM, William Sallander <wsallander@...> wrote:

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd
like to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us
remember that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains
with this and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know
of a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second
point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues
by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the
ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and
you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the
ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right
person, we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they
consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked patch
and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one
specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a
mailing list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the
problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us
do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:48:58 +0200
From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID:
<CAOo351T0zEX7jZuyF6rxQ9Rhh+e6+TZw8rC8GqXhiAFzbs-CKg@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 03:11:17 -0700
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: in response to anearlier post
Message-ID: <F3F10497D91A4F278DC0B3827EF50FDA@New2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi,
The joke among people who have escalated issues quite often is that the "top
rung" is equivalent to the dead letter office.
I think if someone actually followed up and said "we can't do it" we'd see
that response as honorable.

I don't know how much time goes into things like "research it" but unless
you're a bookie, MLB and other sports scores don't hold a candle to the
longstanding issues that people have complained about since perhaps Jaws8.
I think they do try, I'm not saying this is all a black & white situation
but somewhere along the line, the chain of communication gets broken. The
fact that most of the complainers do not actually pay the bills themselves
could be a factor because from their (FS's) point of view, you have to keep
those with the purse strings happy.

Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of William Sallander
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:38 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: in response to anearlier post

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd like
to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us remember
that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains with this
and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know of
a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second
point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues
by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the
ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and
you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the
ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right person,
we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they
consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked patch
and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one
specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a mailing
list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us
do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 13:38:41 +0100
From: "paul lemm" <paul.lemm@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: outlook 2010
Message-ID: <001701cd98bf$32e7cd00$98b76700$@sky.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi,

Yep, I've found the conversation view part in the view menu but just can't
get it to act quite as I'd like. Many thanks for the advise though.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Soronel Haetir
Sent: 21 September 2012 23:39
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: outlook 2010

Not a solution, exactly, but I would look through the view tab on the
ribbon. If an answer is to be found that is where it will likely be.

On 9/21/12, paul lemm <paul.lemm@...> wrote:
hi,



I've just joined the list so hi to everyone, and have a question
about jaws and outlook 2010 and its conversation view. In my old
version of outlook 2003, when viewing messages in conversation view
jaws read the subject and said how many emails in that conversation.
However in outlook 2010 jaws always reads the names of all senders
first, then the subject which is very annoying if lots of people have
replied since you have to listen to all the names before you hear the
subject and find out if it is something you are interested in. is
there a way to change this so it reads subjects and how many messages
in each conversation before who has sent messages in that conversation



Many thanks in advance

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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...

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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:40:44 -0400
From: "Tanja Milojevic" <tanja631@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: in response to anearlier post
Message-ID: <21B532BBD7274ABE9047727BAC8FC1B3@TanjaPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I agree on that. Join your local youth council if there is one for
disability related issues and spread the word to those companies. That's the
only way they'll listen, if it comes from a place of authority.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of William Sallander
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:38 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: in response to anearlier post

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd like
to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us remember
that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains with this
and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know of
a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at
http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other
earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those
problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second
point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of
screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues
by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the
ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and
you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the
ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right person,
we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom
Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one
particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to
upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of
software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they
consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked patch
and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure
that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one
specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our
congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a mailing
list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us
do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:26:52 -0400
From: "cecropia64@..." <cecropia64@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: new thread
Message-ID: <505DBC9C.3080609@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

HI FOLKS. I WAS WONDERING IF ANYBODY OUT THERE KNOWS HOW TO GET JAWS TO
SPEAK ALL IN THUNDERBIRD? IN OUTLOOK EXPRESS, IT DOES AUTOMATICALLY.
BUT IN THUNDERBIRD, I HAVE TO HIT INSERT DOWN ARROW TO DO THIS. I KNOW
IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M ALITTLE LAZY AND I AM KIND OF, BUT IT GETS OLD HAVING
TO HIT THE INSERT PLUS DOWN ARROW ALL THE TIME. THANKS. STEWART



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:32:36 -0400
From: "cecropia64@..." <cecropia64@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <505DBDF4.9030907@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

TOO BAD FREEDOM ISN'T RUN BY A BUNCH OF BLIND PEOPLE WHO KNOW JUST WHAT
IT IS LIKE. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF SIGHTED PEOPLE WRITING
A PROGRAM FOR BLIND FOLKS WHO JUST ASSUME THEY KNOW WHAT WE NEED AND
WANT. NOW I AM NO EXPERT ON FS NOR DO I CLAIM TO BE. BUT THE PEOPLE
WHO NEED THIS PROGRAM IS US. THE OTHER THING IS FS SEEMS TO BE CHANGING
FINANCIAL HANDS QUITE OFTEN. I'M SURE THIS DOESN'T HELP MATTERS ANY
EITHER.
On 9/21/2012 10:57 PM, Russell Solowoniuk wrote:
If he's stumped, a simple email saying so would have prevented this entire
rant on my part. As you say, the silence is maddening!

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:23 AM, "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@...>
wrote:

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out, Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references
in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I can, I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call
a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has
nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is
the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.
Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR
RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH
ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED,
AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES
UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information
that is privileged, attorney work product or otherwise protected by
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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 07:32:48 -0600
From: Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <0B2D6D53-F1E6-48C0-B3D2-33856648B08B@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

I have an iMac and absolutely love it. VoiceOver is a great screen reader,
and, it works well for things like email, surfing the web with Safari, for
simple word processing where formatting isn't crucial. However, it does
have its limitations at this point. It is very difficult, if not
impossible, to navigate tables in Pages, the Word processor that Apple puts
out. Microsoft Office is not at all accessible with VoiceOver. There is a
database program, Bento, that is supposed to be somewhat accessible with VO,
but I haven't tried it so can't comment. I am able to scan with my Mac, and
basically do anything I need to do at home with it, but, it definitely would
not serve well in my workplace as a full replacement for Windows. Maybe one
day though!!

Narrator would have a long, long way to go to come close to what VO can do
on the Mac, in my opinion.

HTH

Russell
On 2012-09-22, at 3:48 AM, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis@...> wrote:

Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick
to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world
in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:02:08 +0100
From: "Philip Anderson" <p.anderson@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Subject: Off Topic
Message-ID:
<000601cd98ca$dadbb520$90931f60$@anderson@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Good afternoon

I was wondering if you maybe able to help

Regrettably, I have lost the password for the admin account on my laptop and
was wondering if anybody knows what the quick fix solution is?

I'm currently using Windows 7 and have sighted help on hand.


Many thanks in anticipation

Kind regards

Philip





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:04:41 -0400
From: "James Homuth" <james@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: Off Topic
Message-ID: <368585C2255E4506B3F2932177384112@quan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My advice for you, good sir, is to take this question to something like the
BlindTech mailing list, since this isn't really applicable to the list's
topic.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Philip Anderson
Sent: September 22, 2012 10:02 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: Off Topic

Good afternoon

I was wondering if you maybe able to help

Regrettably, I have lost the password for the admin account on my laptop and
was wondering if anybody knows what the quick fix solution is?

I'm currently using Windows 7 and have sighted help on hand.


Many thanks in anticipation

Kind regards

Philip



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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:08:23 +0100
From: "Philip Anderson" <p.anderson@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: Off Topic
Message-ID:
<000a01cd98cb$baa793e0$2ff6bba0$@anderson@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Will do, James, and apologies for any inconvenience.

Kind regards

Philip

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of James Homuth
Sent: 22 September 2012 15:05
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: Off Topic

My advice for you, good sir, is to take this question to something like the
BlindTech mailing list, since this isn't really applicable to the list's
topic.

James,
List Admin

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Philip Anderson
Sent: September 22, 2012 10:02 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: Off Topic

Good afternoon

I was wondering if you maybe able to help

Regrettably, I have lost the password for the admin account on my laptop and
was wondering if anybody knows what the quick fix solution is?

I'm currently using Windows 7 and have sighted help on hand.


Many thanks in anticipation

Kind regards

Philip



_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@...
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:44:43 -0400
From: "Steve Boodram" <steveboodram071@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <C1968F95AC0D42F793E25586B82126E6@boodram37111f0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

I suspect Microsoft will get the message sooner or later and make Uncle
Narrator more friendly to us. In fact Windows 7, and I believe 8 have
already seen much improvement in this respect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick
to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world
in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:54:12 -0400
From: Stan Holdeman <sholdeman@...>
To: "JFW List" <jfw@...>
Subject: transfer jaws dictionary file
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP114D5E9DA55E0A0E13ED949BE980@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Listers: I want to have my jaws dictionary changes effective in my new
windows 7 computer. I am running jaws 13 on both old and new machines. Can't
I just copy default.jdf from old machine and paste it to the appropriate enu
folder in the new machine? I guess you then compile/save in the new?

Thanks, Stan

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------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 07:25:28 -0800
From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID:
<CAG5j88oaZbOF=A1DaLHyzoyt3wJiBaApWDQfMo7qizk9hCE9jQ@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Personally I was pretty happy with narrator being just good enough to
get a real screen reader installed. :)

On 9/22/12, Steve Boodram <steveboodram071@...> wrote:
I suspect Microsoft will get the message sooner or later and make Uncle
Narrator more friendly to us. In fact Windows 7, and I believe 8 have
already seen much improvement in this respect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ari Damoulakis" <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi guys
Would the solution be for Microsoft to do what Apple does and
drastically improve Narrator and integrate it deeper into Windows? I'm
basically asking this because one of my fellow students at uni got an
Apple, I haven't seen or used one really yet, but he carries on going
on about how great the screen reader is, how it is so much better than
jaws (particularly on the web), and how he'll never go back to windows
again. I've never used one, so I can't really comment, but would am
wondering whether Apple people are now getting a better experience and
ways of doing things than what we are?
Ari

On 9/22/12, Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...> wrote:
Very good point!! LOL

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 8:41 PM, Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...> wrote:

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me
on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick
to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing
rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's
a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command
F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good
screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no
charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the
past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world
in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they
can
get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of
choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they
have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream
of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up
each
new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out
money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing
exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this
really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that
they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced.
Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that
is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED
OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT
INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR
THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If
you have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date:
09/21/12

-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2441/5283 - Release Date:
09/21/12


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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@...



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:37:35 -0400
From: Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID: <0b864d$aeu3cd@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

As a musician, music teacher, and mixing and mastering engineer, I
rely daily on several applications that require extensive Jaws
scripting support to be rendered accessible. I can't do that with
any other screen reader on the market, PC or Mac. So, they will
continue to get my money as long as they are the only option for me
and the work that I do.

There are some people out here doing a lot more than reading
emails, using Google, or opening a pdf or two.



At 10:41 PM 9/21/2012, you wrote:
Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and
hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader
informing me on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will
stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are
changing rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to
Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really
good screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and
no charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in
the past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the
world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...>
wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that
they can get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader
of choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions,
they have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed
stream of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype
up each new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell
out money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely
nothing exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is
this really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric
Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think
that they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first
introduced. Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and
that is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges"
<llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made
some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added
some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers
remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous;
too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too
many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my
Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important
information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new
features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to
customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this
area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making
products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell
phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points
out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being
addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for
example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have
complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been
addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad,
We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a
while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's
unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last
line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one
else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment
banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the
developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with
exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been
having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks
that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to
me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my
database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the
ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually
include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the
student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at
least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search
field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and
then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field,
I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't
move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows
XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new
computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was
escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to
send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I
made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to
him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed
John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of
June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine
in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there
today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works
well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in
town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:51:42 -0500
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@...>
To: The Jaws for Windows support list. <jfw@...>
Subject: RE: transfer jaws dictionary file
Message-ID:

<EA96CB6B01F3834281A5EAFEB49792753383664C62@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-- Stan's request --
If what Stan is proposing (See below) can be done, then something I loved in
Window-Eyes could, at least in theory, be implemented in JAWS.
With Dragon Naturally Speaking, as good as it is, it does not always get
homonyms right and, by definition, they sound the same. So, it is really
hard, if not impossible, to proof a document using speech alone,
particularly a long document. I'm sorry to say my Braille skills are worse
than terrible. So, I rely on speech.
Now, if I could create a dictionary with the 100 or 200 most common
homonyms, I would not mistakenly say:
"Man shall not live by bred alone," or "the mare was bread to last year's
champion."
Note, they sound exactly the same, but the meanings of "bred" and "bread"
are quite different, and allowing such an error to get through in a document
(or even in an email message) is embarrassing, to say the least.
Anyway, if I could create such a dictionary, when I wanted to proofread a
dictated document, I would just "switch" in the jdf file, using a batch
file, for instance, to back up the first dictionary file. I wouldn't want
the homonym dictionary running all the time, but if all I had to do is write
a batch file to copy dictionary files, I think I could do that. By the way,

the dictionary file would just spell the homonym. Thus, "bred" would be
spelled out as b r e d. You can see why one would not want this running all
the time, but you can also see how Marie Antoinette would never say, "Let
them eat b r e d." Oh, that's right. It was cake. <SMILE>
Seriously, I suggested to Freedom Scientific that this feature, the
homonym dictionary, be added to its Text Analyzer as an option to turn on
or off along with the other "errors" text analyzer looks for. Alas, Freedom
Scientific, so far, has not seen the wisdom of such a feature.
Well, I'm hoping someone more proficient than am I in the inner workings of
JAWS can tell me that what Stan and I want to do is possible.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Stan Holdeman
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:54 AM
To: JFW List
Subject: transfer jaws dictionary file

Listers: I want to have my jaws dictionary changes effective in my new
windows 7 computer. I am running jaws 13 on both old and new machines. Can't
I just copy default.jdf from old machine and paste it to the appropriate enu
folder in the new machine? I guess you then compile/save in the new?

Thanks, Stan

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UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 17:51:51 +0200
From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis@...>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@...>
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall
Message-ID:
<CAOo351RgZH-i-_Uqp8A10ekefCeuU0BAz--h82NGxur3ndDuOw@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Oh that's interesting Chris, because this person is a music student
and he told me one can do much more music wise on a mac than one can
on windows, although, to be fair I think he was trying to use jaws
with the free scripts for cakewalk, because apparrently the cake talk
scripts are very expensive.

On 9/22/12, Chris Smart <csmart8@...> wrote:
As a musician, music teacher, and mixing and mastering engineer, I
rely daily on several applications that require extensive Jaws
scripting support to be rendered accessible. I can't do that with
any other screen reader on the market, PC or Mac. So, they will
continue to get my money as long as they are the only option for me
and the work that I do.

There are some people out here doing a lot more than reading
emails, using Google, or opening a pdf or two.



At 10:41 PM 9/21/2012, you wrote:
Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and
hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader
informing me on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will
stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are
changing rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to
Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really
good screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and
no charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in
the past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the
world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...>
wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that
they can get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader
of choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions,
they have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed
stream of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype
up each new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell
out money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely
nothing exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is
this really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric
Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think
that they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first
introduced. Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and
that is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges"
<llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made
some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added
some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers
remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous;
too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too
many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my
Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important
information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new
features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to
customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this
area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making
products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell
phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points
out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being
addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for
example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have
complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been
addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad,
We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a
while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's
unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last
line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one
else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment
banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the
developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with
exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been
having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks
that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to
me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my
database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the
ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually
include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the
student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at
least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search
field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and
then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field,
I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't
move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows
XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new
computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was
escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to
send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I
made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to
him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed
John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of
June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine
in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there
today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works
well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in
town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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OR REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY
ENTITY, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT
INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A
TAXPAYER FOR
THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the
named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable
law. If
you have received this message in error, please notify the
sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

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End of Jfw Digest, Vol 16, Issue 13
***********************************


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis@...>
 

Oh that's interesting Chris, because this person is a music student
and he told me one can do much more music wise on a mac than one can
on windows, although, to be fair I think he was trying to use jaws
with the free scripts for cakewalk, because apparrently the cake talk
scripts are very expensive.

On 9/22/12, Chris Smart <csmart8@...> wrote:
As a musician, music teacher, and mixing and mastering engineer, I
rely daily on several applications that require extensive Jaws
scripting support to be rendered accessible. I can't do that with
any other screen reader on the market, PC or Mac. So, they will
continue to get my money as long as they are the only option for me
and the work that I do.

There are some people out here doing a lot more than reading
emails, using Google, or opening a pdf or two.



At 10:41 PM 9/21/2012, you wrote:
Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and
hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader
informing me on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will
stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are
changing rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to
Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press
Command F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really
good screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and
no charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in
the past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the
world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their
customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@...>
wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that
they can get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader
of choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions,
they have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed
stream of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype
up each new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell
out money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely
nothing exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is
this really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric
Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think
that they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first
introduced. Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and
that is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges"
<llarges@...>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made
some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added
some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers
remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous;
too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too
many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my
Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important
information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new
features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to
customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this
area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making
products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell
phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points
out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being
addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical
assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for
example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have
complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been
addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when
corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad,
We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a
while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's
unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last
line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one
else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment
banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the
developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@...
[mailto:jfw-bounces@...]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their
downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@...
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with
exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been
having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks
that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to
me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my
database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the
ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually
include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the
student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at
least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search
field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and
then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field,
I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't
move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows
XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new
computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was
escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to
send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I
made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to
him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed
John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of
June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine
in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there
today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works
well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in
town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Re: transfer jaws dictionary file

Marquette, Ed <Ed.Marquette@...>
 

-- Stan's request --
If what Stan is proposing (See below) can be done, then something I loved in Window-Eyes could, at least in theory, be implemented in JAWS.
With Dragon Naturally Speaking, as good as it is, it does not always get homonyms right and, by definition, they sound the same. So, it is really hard, if not impossible, to proof a document using speech alone, particularly a long document. I'm sorry to say my Braille skills are worse than terrible. So, I rely on speech.
Now, if I could create a dictionary with the 100 or 200 most common homonyms, I would not mistakenly say:
"Man shall not live by bred alone," or "the mare was bread to last year's champion."
Note, they sound exactly the same, but the meanings of "bred" and "bread" are quite different, and allowing such an error to get through in a document (or even in an email message) is embarrassing, to say the least.
Anyway, if I could create such a dictionary, when I wanted to proofread a dictated document, I would just "switch" in the jdf file, using a batch file, for instance, to back up the first dictionary file. I wouldn't want the homonym dictionary running all the time, but if all I had to do is write a batch file to copy dictionary files, I think I could do that. By the way,
the dictionary file would just spell the homonym. Thus, "bred" would be spelled out as b r e d. You can see why one would not want this running all the time, but you can also see how Marie Antoinette would never say, "Let them eat b r e d." Oh, that's right. It was cake. <SMILE>
Seriously, I suggested to Freedom Scientific that this feature, the homonym dictionary, be added to its Text Analyzer as an option to turn on or off along with the other "errors" text analyzer looks for. Alas, Freedom Scientific, so far, has not seen the wisdom of such a feature.
Well, I'm hoping someone more proficient than am I in the inner workings of JAWS can tell me that what Stan and I want to do is possible.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@... [mailto:jfw-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Stan Holdeman
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:54 AM
To: JFW List
Subject: transfer jaws dictionary file

Listers: I want to have my jaws dictionary changes effective in my new windows 7 computer. I am running jaws 13 on both old and new machines. Can't I just copy default.jdf from old machine and paste it to the appropriate enu folder in the new machine? I guess you then compile/save in the new?

Thanks, Stan

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