Date   

Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Dave...
 

Russell,

Well, it may be that there are still users with 3.5 and Ruby. Do you want to
cut them out of any support just because they don't need, or want to update?

Archival databases are not uncommon.


Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <rsolowoniuk@shaw.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 19:40
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


And, have you ever tried to search for a solution to a problem on the FS
knowledgebase? It's a joke! Why are we still geting results for Jaws 3.5?
And Ruby Openbook? Come on FS!

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:37 AM, Lisa Larges <llarges@tamfs.org> wrote:

From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very good
new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one of its
biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances
of
underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals and
help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated 2009,
for
instance, and some important information was out of date); not enough
attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR feature is
great
in concept, but still more or less half-baked in actuality); failure to
respond to customer's needs (such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance,
but,
again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove to me
that
it is a company that values making products driven by customers' needs and
responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never
have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out, Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their
issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all
then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been repeatedly
reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references
in
MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I can,
I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation,
or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if
the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the
real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Re: in response to anearlier post

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

All valid points, but, I think the reason we come to this list to vent is because we've tried your suggestions. I've been around this issue of the search field in an Access table with FS since last February. I thought it was last June, but I checked my email correspondence with FS at work today and the issue was from February. I called FS. The tech support guy wasn't able to help, so he escalated it. From there it got escalated to the person I mentioned in an earlier post. The thing I find really frustrating is that, after I took the time to strip down my database to make sure that no student information was in the database, and sent it to FS, in February, I heard absolutely nothing back. I was patient and waited till March and then emailed again to check if any progress had been made. Once again no response. I got busy and didn't deal with it again till May, at which time I emailed John again. Once again no response. I would have been happy if John had at least had the courtesy to email me back and say, sorry, we can't fix this problem, or, sorry, but we're still working on it. But, not to respond is totally unforgiveable. After all the money I've spent on Jaws since Jaws version 1.21, I'd think I merit a response at the very least, and a solution at best.

Thanks,

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!

On 2012-09-21, at 8:37 PM, William Sallander <wsallander@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd like to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us remember that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains with this and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know of a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right person, we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked patch and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a mailing list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

David Maynard <dmaynard35@...>
 

Dave;

I am happy you have had good results , but I have not. You may think I am not being fair, but what I have written in this thread is the absolute truth.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Farfar Carlson
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:15 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

David,

That's not fair -- John Carson has fixed two problems that I reported and
was escalated to him.

Dave Carlson
Tastefully composed and launched near the Pacific Ocean using a Dell
Latitude E6520, JAWS 13.0.718, and Windows 7 Professional 32-bit


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Maynard" <dmaynard35@morrisbb.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 05:35
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws for
months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws since
Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via email,
and I must copy and paste the information into my database. The field for
the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN number, however, when
students send me requests they usually include the dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's email
(with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the archive of books
we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN field, press CTRL F
to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws 10 and earlier, paste
the student's ISBN into the search field and then arrow to the dashes in
the ISBN and delete them, and then press enter to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not able
to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So, what I must
do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and then copy and
paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the problem
was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the extent of
their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and, mine had
Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still existed. I
contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up the chain. John
Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him a copy of my
database so they could look at the problem. I made a copy, removed all
relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This was last June. I heard
nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too with
no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I for
one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution in the
Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the price is
right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very frustrated with FS
attitude that they are the only game in town and don't, therefore, need to
respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Guido Corona <aloysiusq@...>
 

Mayhaps, but as far as I know, I still can't go up to a Mac and hope to
create and edit a complex document whith the screen reader informing me on
the fly about the document structure. Until that happens, I will stick to
Windows, MS Office, and JAWS.

Guido

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On
Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:35 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing rapidly.
The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a
liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command F5,
and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good screen
reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no charge
for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the past,
and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world in
their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their customers,
lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@verizon.net> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can get
away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of choice
for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they have
no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream of
income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each new
version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out money
to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing exciting
about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this really
such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and
Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that they
were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced. Such
arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that is
not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@tamfs.org>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains
one of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too
many instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many
instances of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to
updating manuals and help files (the manual I received with my Focus
40 Blue was dated 2009, for instance, and some important information
was out of date); not enough attention to improving new features (the
new Convenient-OCR feature is great in concept, but still more or
less half-baked in actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs
(such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area --
new hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for
instance, but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to
climb to prove to me that it is a company that values making products
driven by customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers
know their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed.
Of course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in
fact, addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in
every version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent
inquiries are received as if the problem had never been addressed.
And yes, when I can, I include the entire email chain when corresponding
with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're
too busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and
furnish Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair
to blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks
call a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers.
Carson has nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years
nothing has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you
named. He is the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued
Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having
with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that
I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least
in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am
not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move.
So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the
dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was
the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send
him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and,
I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database
solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and
the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

And, have you ever tried to search for a solution to a problem on the FS knowledgebase? It's a joke! Why are we still geting results for Jaws 3.5? And Ruby Openbook? Come on FS!

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:37 AM, Lisa Larges <llarges@tamfs.org> wrote:

From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very good
new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one of its
biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances of
underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals and
help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated 2009, for
instance, and some important information was out of date); not enough
attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR feature is great
in concept, but still more or less half-baked in actuality); failure to
respond to customer's needs (such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance, but,
again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove to me that
it is a company that values making products driven by customers' needs and
responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and never
have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out, Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been repeatedly
reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references in
MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I can, I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation, or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


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_______________________________________________
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


in response to anearlier post

William Sallander <wsallander@...>
 

Hello Everyone

I've just finished reading a long thread with the subject line "
FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall".

Though this post might be a bit long and possibly a tad off topic, I'd like to give just a couple of my opinions.

First of all in regards to the latest Jaws 14 beta version, let us remember that this is a beta and there are and will be some growing pains with this and future beta releases.

It seems to me that the best approach to letting freedom Scientific know of a bug is to report it in the bug report form found at http://www.freedomscientific.com/support/JAWSbetaReport.asp

Though I do agree there are some issues with this beta version and other earlier versions, it would seem to be best if we all deal with those problems directly with Freedom Scientific; which now brings me to my second point.

I believe that if we are experiencing issues with both our versions of screen readers and the possible lack of attention being paid to these issues by all tiers of tech support, it could be in your best interest to climb the ladder; in other words, if you do not get satisfaction from one person and you have exhausted all avenues with that person, go to the next rung on the ladder.

Its my opinion if we make enough noise in the direction of the right person, we might get some action.

Now my last point would be that it is not always the fault of Freedom Scientific. We also need to look at the software publishers.

I can speak from experience that when working for a company who uses one particular suite of software of database system and then feel the need to upgrade, it can change the way Jaws will interface with that piece of software or system.

We need to make all software companies aware that it would be nice if they consider full accessibility and not just trying to add in some hacked patch and call it accessible.

Maybe we need to see if a act or even better a law be passed making sure that any piece of software or operating system be fully accessible under one specific standard.

This might be accomplished by signing a petition or writing to our congressmen and or senators; after all, this is an election year.

In conclusion I'd like to say that writing about such problems on a mailing list such as this is a good way to vent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

We need to go to the source and speak to the right person. If enough of us do that, maybe something can be accomplished.




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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

Hi Gerald,

While I mostly agree with what you say, I think things are changing rapidly. The Mac platform is quickly becoming a viable option to Windows. It's a liberating feeling to be able to walk into an Apple store, press Command F5, and be able to try out any computer you wish. NVDA is a really good screen reader, and it's free. System Access is fairly inexpensive, and no charge for updates. There are many more options now than there were in the past, and FS is going to wake up one day and realize that they had the world in their hands, and, due to their arrogance, and inattention to their customers, lost everything.

Just my two cents worth.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 9:57 AM, Gerald Levy <bwaylimited@verizon.net> wrote:


The reason FS is so unresponsive to customer inquiries is that they can get away with it. As long as they remain the commercial screen reader of choice for most businesses and government and educational institutions, they have no incentive to change their ways because they have a guaranteed stream of income regardless of what customers think of them. And they hype up each new version of JAWS to excite their customers enough to rush to shell out money to keep their SMA's up to date. So far, there is absolutely nothing exciting about JAWS 14. The "hot" new feature is vocalizer voices, but is this really such a big deal? Not for most users. But from the way Eric Damery and Jonathan Mosen hyped them up on the last FSCast, you would think that they were the greatest improvement to JAWS since it was first introduced. Such arrogance will not change until the corporate culture changes, and that is not likely to happen any time soon.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Larges" <llarges@tamfs.org>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very good
new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one of its
biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances of
underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals and
help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated 2009, for
instance, and some important information was out of date); not enough
attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR feature is great
in concept, but still more or less half-baked in actuality); failure to
respond to customer's needs (such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance, but,
again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove to me that
it is a company that values making products driven by customers' needs and
responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and never
have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out, Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been repeatedly
reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references in
MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I can, I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation, or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at 402-346-6000 and delete
this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

Hey Ted,

Well, it may not be possible to write flawless code, however, when users specifically point out issues they are encountering, surely it is possible to go back to the code in question and see where the problem lies? I keep bringing up the point that NVDA is able to work in the search field, so, it's not asking the impossible.

Thanks,

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 11:36 AM, "Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)" <Ted.Lisle@ky.gov> wrote:

Without serving as an apologist, the size of today's applications
staggers the mind. Many of us can remember loading programs from
floppies, an remember a time when a single developer could write and
market a screenreader, database, spreadsheet, whatever. Remember David
Holliday, Ron Hutchinson, Larry Skutchan, David Justice? However we may
laud the days of DOS (and I liked it most of the time), how many of us
would go back? How does one proofread a program with more lines than
War and Peace?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:04 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

You know, I worked as project leader and all that kind of crap for 30
years.
One Golden Rule was do not release a "new and improved" version untill
all known bugs were cleaned up from the current version.
Had I been as unresponsive or irresponsible as FS seems to be I would
have had a career as a system analyst which would have lasted for at
least a month.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisa Larges
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:37 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very
good new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one
of its biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances
of underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals
and help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated
2009, for instance, and some important information was out of date); not
enough attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR
feature is great in concept, but still more or less half-baked in
actuality); failure to respond to customer's needs (such as the
stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance,
but, again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove
to me that it is a company that values making products driven by
customers' needs and responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and
never have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out,
Freedom Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know
their issues are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of
course, we all then assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact,
addressing issues -- a rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been
repeatedly reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic
cross-references in MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example,
Section 1.2(d), it reads something like "Merge code Ref
277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I
can, I include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom
Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish
Red Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of
escalation, or defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in
tech assistance can solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call
a Chinese curtain between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has
nowhere to go if the developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is
the real issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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_______________________________________________
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ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR
WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF
AVOIDING PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged,
attorney work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you
have received this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

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Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


laptop issues...what I decided.

ptusing <ptusing@...>
 

Hi,
many thanks to those who responded to my laptop query.

I narrowed the choices to Dell, Acer and Lenovo. It appeared to me that I did not wish to hasslewith hewlett-packard 17 inch laptops with so many keys to remap. Although I lovethe 15-inch Fujitsu laptop,I was buying a 17 inch laptop which had remapped numpad keys. I knew this because of what a jfw list member said. When changing layout to laptop layout , no numpad keys read correctly with JAWS which is opposite what the list member said so I knew there was some problem.

Although I did not choose Lenovo 17-inch laptops whose video cards use the onboard chip:
I do like the 15-inch Lenovo laptops. Most of those that I saw at least had full keyboards. From my research, it appears that the keys are not remapped. But one can easily and quickly discoverthat when one launches JAWS and one finds out whether insert + t" and other keystrokes using numpad insert work. .
I picked a laptop with dedicated memory on the video card asI use MAGICand JAWS.

The only issue I have foundthus far is that in minimizing applications to go to the Desktop, onehasto tap 2 letters before one can select aDesktop icon. No big deal.

The Adobe reader works fine in reading 3 column text using JAWS and MAGIC if one chooses the reading option with the words "raw stream" in the choice.

Sorry if I am not technical enough.

The 16.3 inch long laptop fits into my carrying bagthat is on wheels.

TARGUS has a standwith the fan wich acts to cool the laptop that extends laptop life which has 4 additional USB slots. The stand can be raised or lowered or flattened to fit into a suitcase.

Thus I hope I am repaying those who responded. This search has taken me days--time returning laptops and convincing stores to not charge me restocking fees--and
the aggrivation of having Windows 7 set up only to find out that JAWS was quirky on the remapped laptops.

Because I was such afan of Fujitsu and still do like Fujitsu 15-inch laptops,I called headquarters and madesome one listen to me.

I hope those disability advocates out there will help insist that laptop Sales personnel will at least admit when keys are remapped before one purchases a laptop that just might not work
well with JAWS. The remapping also might affect other screen readers, butIa m not sure about that.


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

Yes, I agree 100%. While it's kind of cool that we have the ability to use Vocalizer voices now, to be honest, I tried Samantha, and, while the voice is nice, I still prefer Eloquence. I would much rather have the ability to search a field in a table in Access.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 12:21 PM, Cy Selfridge <cyselfridge@comcast.net> wrote:

Somehow FS has failed to follow the KISS principle.
It is wonderful that JAWS tries to do everything short of washing the dishes
but it sure would be nice if you could depend on installing the new version
and know that 99.99% of the common bugs had been fixed.
It is even worse when things in the current version suddenly stop working.
Cy
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Without serving as an apologist, the size of today's applications staggers
the mind. Many of us can remember loading programs from floppies, an
remember a time when a single developer could write and market a
screenreader, database, spreadsheet, whatever. Remember David Holliday, Ron
Hutchinson, Larry Skutchan, David Justice? However we may laud the days of
DOS (and I liked it most of the time), how many of us would go back? How
does one proofread a program with more lines than War and Peace?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:04 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

You know, I worked as project leader and all that kind of crap for 30 years.
One Golden Rule was do not release a "new and improved" version untill all
known bugs were cleaned up from the current version.
Had I been as unresponsive or irresponsible as FS seems to be I would have
had a career as a system analyst which would have lasted for at least a
month.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisa Larges
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:37 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very good
new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one of its
biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances of
underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals and
help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated 2009, for
instance, and some important information was out of date); not enough
attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR feature is great
in concept, but still more or less half-baked in actuality); failure to
respond to customer's needs (such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance, but,
again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove to me that
it is a company that values making products driven by customers' needs and
responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and never
have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out, Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been repeatedly
reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references in
MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I can, I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation, or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
ANY FEDERAL TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE SHOULD NOT BE USED OR
REFERRED TO IN THE PROMOTING, MARKETING OR RECOMMENDING OF ANY ENTITY,
INVESTMENT PLAN OR ARRANGEMENT, AND SUCH ADVICE IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN
TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, BY A TAXPAYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING
PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE.

This E-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named
recipients above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney
work product or otherwise protected by applicable law. If you have received
this message in error, please notify the sender at
402-346-6000 and delete this E-mail message.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

Well, it seems to me that if a free screen reader like NVDA can work as it ought to in a search field in MS Access, then surely a big company like FS can figure it out too. Maybe they need to contact some of the folks who write code for NVDA.

And, by the way, I am using MS Access 2010, Jaws 13, Windows 7... all these programs are the latest versions, but have been around long enough to make them work properly... I mean, I'm talking about a simple search field in Access... that should be a fundamental task that one should be able to perform.

Russell
On 2012-09-21, at 1:22 PM, Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@gmail.com> wrote:

It's not that simple, what they are trying to provide access to is
itself a quickly moving target. Especially right now as we are in a
state of flux between the tried and true GDI rendering path and the
much more hardware friendly -- but current accessibility nightmare --
direct3d rendering path.

Or look at how the accessibility APIs for a program like visual studio
have changed several times over the last few versions, and I'm pretty
sure the same is true with office as well. And beyobnd that vendors
definitely need to be looking at how many people still use a
particular version when deciding where the support cutoff is going to
be, and even after deciding that if there are bug with two different
versions I would hope they would be concentrating their effort on the
version with more users, especially if that is the newer version, even
if the bugs are not as severe. Problems in newer versions are going
to be with us far longer than problems with older versions simply
because the older version is going to age past being supported at all.

On 9/21/12, Cy Selfridge <cyselfridge@comcast.net> wrote:
Somehow FS has failed to follow the KISS principle.
It is wonderful that JAWS tries to do everything short of washing the
dishes
but it sure would be nice if you could depend on installing the new version
and know that 99.99% of the common bugs had been fixed.
It is even worse when things in the current version suddenly stop working.
Cy
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:37 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Without serving as an apologist, the size of today's applications staggers
the mind. Many of us can remember loading programs from floppies, an
remember a time when a single developer could write and market a
screenreader, database, spreadsheet, whatever. Remember David Holliday,
Ron
Hutchinson, Larry Skutchan, David Justice? However we may laud the days of
DOS (and I liked it most of the time), how many of us would go back? How
does one proofread a program with more lines than War and Peace?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Cy Selfridge
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:04 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

You know, I worked as project leader and all that kind of crap for 30
years.
One Golden Rule was do not release a "new and improved" version untill all
known bugs were cleaned up from the current version.
Had I been as unresponsive or irresponsible as FS seems to be I would have
had a career as a system analyst which would have lasted for at least a
month.
Cy

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisa Larges
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:37 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

From my vantage point, as just one consumer, while FS has made some
significant and impressive improvements to JAWS, and added some very good
new features, I think its responsiveness to consumers remains one of its
biggest weaknesses.
No toll-free number for tech support -- that's just ludicrous; too many
instances of failure to respond to consumer feedback; too many instances of
underwhelming tech support; not enough attention to updating manuals and
help files (the manual I received with my Focus 40 Blue was dated 2009, for
instance, and some important information was out of date); not enough
attention to improving new features (the new Convenient-OCR feature is
great
in concept, but still more or less half-baked in actuality); failure to
respond to customer's needs (such as the stonewalling mentioned in this
thread) and so on.

In the past few years I've seen a bit of improvement in this area -- new
hires who really seem to understand customer's concerns, for instance, but,
again, from my perspective, FS has a steep road to climb to prove to me
that
it is a company that values making products driven by customers' needs and
responsive to consumer feedback.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:54 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have left messages on his company voice mail and his cell phone and never
have gotten a return call.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Marquette, Ed
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

To Ted's point, John can often address issues no one else can fix.
Sometimes, he is stumped. The problem is that, as Ted points out, Freedom
Scientific doesn't have any good way to let the customers know their issues
are being addressed -- if they are being addressed. Of course, we all then
assume that Freedom Scientific is not, in fact, addressing issues -- a
rather natural and not illogical assumption.
Plus, the Freedom Scientific customer support database is lacking.
Often, customer support is not aware of issues I know have been repeatedly
reported.
When JAWS 11 came out, it broke the reading of automatic cross-references
in
MS Word 2003. Instead of reading, for example, Section 1.2(d), it reads
something like "Merge code Ref 277-199-1DF-222-19."
Imagine what it is like reading a complex contract with lots of
cross-references?
John, while I was on the phone, verified that version 10 read the
cross-reference correctly. JAWS 11 did not. I have complained in every
version since 10.0. Nothing has happened, and subsequent inquiries are
received as if the problem had never been addressed. And yes, when I can,
I
include the entire email chain when corresponding with Freedom Scientific.
I might like it better even if they said explicitly, "Too bad, We're too
busy figuring out how to duplicate Internet functionality and furnish Red
Sox scores." Silence is maddening.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:01 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Besides, my Access issue eventually resolved, it just took a while.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:22 AM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Not to ignore people's legitimate criticisms of FS, but it's unfair to
blame
John Carson. As I understand it, Carson is the last line of escalation, or
defense, at FS. Problems reach him when no one else in tech assistance can
solve them. FS maintains what investment banks call a Chinese curtain
between tech assistance and the developers. Carson has nowhere to go if the
developers won't assist him.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of David Maynard
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:36 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

I have had issues that have been fixed, but over about ten years nothing
has
been fixed when the problem ended up with the man you named. He is the
real
issue.

David Maynard
Franklin NC
dmaynard35@morrisbb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new
features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws
for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws
since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've
requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via
email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database.
The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN
number, however, when students send me requests they usually include
the
dashes in the ISBN.
So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's
email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN
field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws
10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and
then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press
enter
to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not
able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So,
what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and
then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the
extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and,
mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still
existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up
the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him
a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a
copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This
was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to
see
if he found anything out.
No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too
with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the
database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their
customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I
for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution
in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the
price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very
frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and
don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
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http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


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--
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soronel.haetir@gmail.com

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Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Soronel Haetir
 

Ah, nice to see it's now the top match for the basic string "nvda",
that used to return a bunch of Nevada Dental Association pages first.

On 9/21/12, Chris Smart <csmart8@cogeco.ca> wrote:
a screen reader. Try googling NVDA.



At 05:02 PM 9/21/2012, you wrote:
What's NVDA?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Solowoniuk"
<rsolowoniuk@shaw.ca>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting
new features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have
plagued Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've
been having with Jaws since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks
that I've requested alternate formats for. Students requests
come to me via email, and I must copy and paste the information
into my database. The field for the ISBN is set up not to
accept dashes in the ISBN number, however, when students send me
requests they usually include the dashes in the ISBN. So, when
I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's email
(with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the
archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the
ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at
least in Jaws 10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the
search field and then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete
them, and then press enter to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I
am not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't
move. So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove
the dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the
problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That
was the extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new
computers, and, mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the
problem still existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue
was escalated up the chain. John Carson, I think that's his
name, asked me to send him a copy of my database so they could
look at the problem. I made a copy, removed all relevant
personal data, and sent it to him. This was last June. I heard
nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see if he found
anything out. No response from him. Actually I had emailed at
the end of June too with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in
the database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle
their customers. There are many, many more options out there
today, and, I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver...
no database solution in the Mac that works well yet, but one
day. NVDA works well, and the price is right. I'm sorry for
the rant, but I'm getting very frustrated with FS attitude that
they are the only game in town and don't, therefore, need to
respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
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--
Soronel Haetir
soronel.haetir@gmail.com


Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Chris Smart <csmart8@...>
 

a screen reader. Try googling NVDA.



At 05:02 PM 9/21/2012, you wrote:
What's NVDA?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <rsolowoniuk@shaw.ca>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database. The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN number, however, when students send me requests they usually include the dashes in the ISBN. So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws 10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press enter to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and, mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see if he found anything out. No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering: http://www.ctsmastering.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536


Re: outlook 2010

Kimsan <kimsansong@...>
 

Paul:
I never used outlook 2003, if I did, it was very brief.
As far as this conversation issue are you wanting to have it state
"conversation: jaws question 2 items one unread"?
In this case, the conversations will be collapsed and you will have to right
arrow to expand the conversation, then you can down arrow through the emails
to see who sent them or when the conversation is collapsed, you may simply
hit the delete key and the entire conversation will be deleted.
If this is what you'd like to do, if any of what I said made sense, I can
help you off list because that will be a lot to type lol.
For starters, look under the view tab and see if show as conversation is
checked. After that, we can go from there off list at
kimsan@blindaccesstraining.com if you want more help.




Kimsan Song
Online Access Technology Trainer
Phone:
509-396-1646
Email:
Kimsan@blindaccesstraining.com
Website:
www.BlindAccessTraining.com
Twitter:
@BlindAccess

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of paul lemm
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:49 PM
To: jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
Subject: outlook 2010

hi,



I've just joined the list so hi to everyone, and have a question about jaws
and outlook 2010 and its conversation view. In my old version of outlook
2003, when viewing messages in conversation view jaws read the subject and
said how many emails in that conversation. However in outlook 2010 jaws
always reads the names of all senders first, then the subject which is very
annoying if lots of people have replied since you have to listen to all the
names before you hear the subject and find out if it is something you are
interested in. is there a way to change this so it reads subjects and how
many messages in each conversation before who has sent messages in that
conversation



Many thanks in advance

-------------- next part --------------
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Re: outlook 2010

Soronel Haetir
 

Not a solution, exactly, but I would look through the view tab on the
ribbon. If an answer is to be found that is where it will likely be.

On 9/21/12, paul lemm <paul.lemm@sky.com> wrote:
hi,



I've just joined the list so hi to everyone, and have a question about
jaws
and outlook 2010 and its conversation view. In my old version of outlook
2003, when viewing messages in conversation view jaws read the subject and
said how many emails in that conversation. However in outlook 2010 jaws
always reads the names of all senders first, then the subject which is very
annoying if lots of people have replied since you have to listen to all the
names before you hear the subject and find out if it is something you are
interested in. is there a way to change this so it reads subjects and how
many messages in each conversation before who has sent messages in that
conversation



Many thanks in advance

-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
Jfw mailing list
Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
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--
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Re: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall

Russell Solowoniuk <rsolowoniuk@...>
 

A free screen reader. It stands for non visual desktop access.

Russell

Sent from my iPhone

On 2012-09-21, at 3:02 PM, W K Gorman <wkg@charter.net> wrote:

What's NVDA?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <rsolowoniuk@shaw.ca>
To: <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:26 AM
Subject: FS unwillingness to fix problems will be their downfall


Hi everyone,

Well, here we go again. Another version of Jaws with exciting new features, but no solutions to ongoing problems that have plagued Jaws for months, if not years. Here's the issue I've been having with Jaws since Jaws 11, I think.

I use an MS database at work. The database tracks textbooks that I've requested alternate formats for. Students requests come to me via email, and I must copy and paste the information into my database. The field for the ISBN is set up not to accept dashes in the ISBN number, however, when students send me requests they usually include the dashes in the ISBN. So, when I receive a request, I'll copy the ISBN from the student's email (with dashes), go to the table in MS Access that hold the archive of books we've gotten files for in the past, move to the ISBN field, press CTRL F to search that field, and, then, at least in Jaws 10 and earlier, paste the student's ISBN into the search field and then arrow to the dashes in the ISBN and delete them, and then press enter to do a search.

Since Jaws 11, after pasting the ISBN into the search field, I am not able to move the cursor to the dashes... it just doesn't move. So, what I must do is paste the ISBN into notepad, remove the dashes, and then copy and paste it into Access.

I contacted Freedom Scientific about this and was told that the problem was due to the fact that I was using Windows XP. That was the extent of their help. Then, last spring, we got new computers, and, mine had Windows 7. But, much to my chagrin the problem still existed. I contacted Freedom again, and the issue was escalated up the chain. John Carson, I think that's his name, asked me to send him a copy of my database so they could look at the problem. I made a copy, removed all relevant personal data, and sent it to him. This was last June. I heard nothing back, so this fall I emailed John to see if he found anything out. No response from him. Actually I had emailed at the end of June too with no response.

The sad thing about this is that if I use NVDA, it works fine in the database in the search field.

It's my opinion that FS ought to be very careful how they handle their customers. There are many, many more options out there today, and, I for one am enjoying using a Mac with VoiceOver... no database solution in the Mac that works well yet, but one day. NVDA works well, and the price is right. I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm getting very frustrated with FS attitude that they are the only game in town and don't, therefore, need to respond to customer complaints.

End of rant.

Hope you all are well.

Russell
Sent from my iMac running Mountain Lion!


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com

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outlook 2010

paul lemm
 

hi,



I've just joined the list so hi to everyone, and have a question about jaws
and outlook 2010 and its conversation view. In my old version of outlook
2003, when viewing messages in conversation view jaws read the subject and
said how many emails in that conversation. However in outlook 2010 jaws
always reads the names of all senders first, then the subject which is very
annoying if lots of people have replied since you have to listen to all the
names before you hear the subject and find out if it is something you are
interested in. is there a way to change this so it reads subjects and how
many messages in each conversation before who has sent messages in that
conversation



Many thanks in advance

-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/20120921/3c6a0c08/attachment.html>


Re: Sorry, where can one download Adobe version that workswith JAWS 12?

Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@...>
 

Hi
just google "download adobe reader". The first or second result will
be the official adobe reader site, think it's www.download.adobe.com
but I can be wrong. Then just select your language and windows version
if it doesn't already detect it and download the latest adobe version.
it works fine with jaws 11, 12 and 13.

On 9/21/12, ptusing <ptusing@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hi,
i tried 3 different Adobe sites.
I will save info.


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Re: Sorry, where can one download Adobe version that workswith JAWS 12?

Siera Ray <sieradream@...>
 

If you want to read PDF documents, I'd recommend QRead. I think it's only about $10 or so and it's just really worth it. It won't work if you need to interact with documents, but if all you need to do is read them, take a look at it.

http://q-continuum.net/qread/



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Daily or Weekly Compensation Available

Training Provided

No Experience Necessary!

$10.00 REBATE OFFERED!

Contact Me To Learn More: respond@easyincomeonline.net

Or Click one of the Following Links For More Information:

http://ecincome.easyincomeonline.net

http://ecinfo.easyincomeonline.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "ptusing" <ptusing@sbcglobal.net>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:35 PM
Subject: Sorry, where can one download Adobe version that workswith JAWS 12?


Hi,
i tried 3 different Adobe sites.
I will save info.


_______________________________________________
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Jfw@lists.the-jdh.com
http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com


Sorry, where can one download Adobe version that workswith JAWS 12?

ptusing <ptusing@...>
 

Hi,
i tried 3 different Adobe sites.
I will save info.