moderated Re: Locking the mouse buttons:

David Diamond

I like to say you have to crawl before you can run. Pretty much means the same thing. Smile.

From: <> on behalf of Gene Warner <genewarner3@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 8:47:07 PM
To: <>
Subject: Re: Locking the mouse buttons:
You see what you want to see, I do not feel I was being rude, I was
being honest because I've been there.

A rehab instructor who was supposed to teach the basics of using a
screen reader did that to everyone in the class I was in. It left most,
if not all, of us confused because we had no idea what we needed to
learn to get started other than everything. So most of us could not
answer his question with anything other than a "I don't know". It was
not a very comfortable situation.

Several months later when I attended an alumni Christmas party I learned
that more than half of that class never returned just like I did and
that that instructor was no longer employed there, he was terminated
soon after I left. I can only guess that many of the other students in
that class complained about him.

Now maybe Brian was teaching an intermediate or advanced level class in
which case his approach would have been appropriate, but that approach
is not appropriate when your students don't know what they need to learn

Before you can run, you must first learn to walk.


On 8/7/2022 10:03 PM, Don Walls wrote:
> Harsh!  Do you really need to be so rude?  It seems reasonable that an
> instructor ask a student about the student's goals and needs.
> Don

> -----Original Message----- From: Gene Warner
> Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 2:22 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Locking the mouse buttons:
> You are right, I wouldn't want you as an instructor because you would be
> a lousy one. The class was supposed to be a class on using JAWS. If you
> can't teach that without needing the student to tell you what his goal
> is, you have no business being an instructor.
> Gene...
> On 8/7/2022 5:13 PM, David Diamond wrote:
>> I think in this case the sighted person did not draw the client out
>> and the client did not tell the teacher exactly what she needed to
>> learn. Sorry, some people’s communication skills are lacking.  The
>> enquirer doesn’t know how to draw the person out and the student
>> doesn’t know how to communicate properly what they want.  Then there
>> is the other thought, audio skills are lacking as well, I E the
>> teacher is not listening to his or her student.  Indirectly related. 
>> A person asked me a question and I did not understand what he wanted,
>> I asked for clarification and all he said was, “The question is clear
>> enough.” If it was clear enough, I’d not have to ask.  Smile. A good
>> teacher should know how to draw their students out, not asking or
>> giving vague questions or answers.  If a blind person asks where
>> something is in a store, the person they ask should not say, “Over
>> there or, over that way.” True they’ve answered the question however
>> not in a way that the blind person can understand.
>> *From:* <> *On Behalf Of *Brian
>> Vogel
>> *Sent:* August 7, 2022 1:14 PM
>> *To:*
>> *Subject:* Re: Locking the mouse buttons:
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 02:10 PM, Gene Warner wrote:
>>     Totally agree! After I lost my vision, I signed up for a JAWS class
>>     at the local Lighthouse for the blind, the instructor was sighted
>>     and his method of instruction was to ask, "What do you want to
>> learn?"
>> -
>> Well, then, you'd definitely not want me as an instructor, either. 
>> Most of my clients are adults who have lost their vision as adults.  I
>> am there to instruct on using a screen reader, but I find that
>> allowing the client to choose what they want to do/learn while
>> learning the screen reader is best left up to them.  I can't know what
>> programs a given client might want to use or, if trying to teach
>> screen reader skills with a web browser, what it is they'd prefer to
>> read, research, etc.
>> One of the things I have had the hardest time getting certain field
>> counselors in the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually
>> Impaired to understand is that you cannot teach how to use a screen
>> reader as a stand alone thing.  A screen reader has, as its reason for
>> being, accessing something else.  And I'd rather the client tell me,
>> at least for the most part, what the "something elses" are in their
>> lives.
>> I can't even begin to imagine what, "What do you want to learn?," even
>> means when it comes to instructing on a screen reader since they don't
>> function in isolation.  I interpret it as, "What do you need or want
>> to learn how to use with a screen reader?"  And I want my students to
>> tell me that, and I'll focus accordingly.
>> --
>> Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. 
>> If you’re alive, it isn’t.**
>> *     ~ Lauren Bacall

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