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moderated Re: Buying a laptop

Van Lant, Robin
 

Tom,
Here at work, I have an HP elitbook with no numpad. I have it set to laptop layout and use the caps lock as a secondary JAWS key. I don't think I've every used desktop layout with JAWS, so I'll just describe how it works with laptop.

The J, K, and L keys on the main keyboard become the 4, 5 and 6 on the numpad. U, I and O become the 7, 8 and 9, and the m, comma, and period keys become 1, 2 and 3. When I hold the JAWS key (caps lock with my left pinky) then the k key, it acts like the numpad 5 command to say the current word. If I hit it twice quickly, it spells the word. There are typically small numbers on these keys for sighted users, as this truly acts like a numpad for any user of the laptop, when the NumLock is on. Think about an accountant who does not have separate numpad, but needs to enter a lot of numbers. That user would hit the NumLock key then use the key's I've mentioned like a numpad. I honestly don't know where the zero key or other math function keys are in this case, but a sighted user would see it noted on the keys.

Hope that gives you a sense. Frankly, even on my 17 inch laptop with the separate numpad, I'm so used to using the commands as I described, that I do not think to move my right hand to the numpad for commands.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

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Ok, Bill.

This givbes me an idea, and I'll pursue more via the Jaws help files if needed.

Appreciate the quick response.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:55 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

The keystroke for invoking Say All (INSERT plus Two on the numbers row) is,

CAPS LOCK+A or CAPS LOCK+DOWN ARROW

Bill White

billwhite92701@...


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:37 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

So, for example, if I wanted to invoke the insert 2 command for reading a document, how would you do that on a laptop with no numpad?

I can obviously check in the Jaws help documentation if I need much more detail, so this is simply an item of curiosity at this point.

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:28 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. You'd need to switch to laptop keyboard mode, and use the letters and punctuation keys on the home row, and the rows above and below the home row.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Of course, you're correct, Bill.

Had a brain lapse, and simply didn't think of it that way.

So, how do you typically invoke the normal Jaws reading commands like insert 2 and insert 3 on a tablet or laptop that does not have a numpad?

Tom Behler


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill White
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 3:10 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Hi, Tom. No, this is not correct. For example, if you press INSERT plus the number two on the numbers row, it changes what JAWS echos, between Characters, Words, characters and words, and nothing. If you press INSERT plus the number two on the NumPad, it will begin reading in Say All mode. So, the INSERT key plus the numbers on the numbers row don't invoke the same commands as the numbers on the NumPad.

Bill White

billwhite92701@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io [mailto:main@jfw.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Behler
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:55 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

All:

I may have more questions about this as I proceed further, but if you purchase a windows tablet or laptop without a numpad, will there be any problems invoking certain Jaws reading commands, like Insert 2, Insert 3, etc.?

I would assume you could use the numbers on the main number row, and the insert key on the normal keyboard.

Is this correct?

Thank you!

Dr. Tom Behler From Michigan



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bonnie Vegiard
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 2:51 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on buying the laptop. I am so used to the desktop layout that I have relied on the NUM pad, and I found it difficult to switch over. Also, I have some vision, so a larger screen is helpful. The guy who is going to make a recommendation did come through, but he recommended one with a touchscreen, which I think is only going to complicate things for me. Still trying to decide whether to get a bigger laptop, or just get a num pad to go with the one I’ve got. But I appreciate all your thoughts.

Bonnie Vegiard
On Dec 23, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Zachary Morris <morriszachary99@...> wrote:

I think I remember that issue on my old dell laptop. Although I’m not quite sure if it was because of realtek drivers or some other reason; when I switched to the microsoft audio driver, I don’t quite remember if that fixed it; I remember doing way too much configuration for my own good when I started using that laptop.
Regards,
Zach
Sent from my MacBook Air (Retina, 13-inch, 2020)

On Dec 23, 2021, at 11:43, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

Lori is correct. If a user prefers a number pad as part of the keyboard and if having one makes things easier then the user should have it. While I’m personally fine with using my preferred external keyboard with my laptop this definitely reduces the portability if you frequently travel.
One consideration that hasn’t been mentioned is the problematic audio latency issues when using screen readers with some (but definitely not all) Realtek drivers. The Microsoft store had a sale with an Asus Vivobook laptop which I bought for my sighted wife. Its performance was impressive but I noticed a delay between pressing a key and hearing the screen reader speak the results of that key press. This was true for both typing characters as well as navigating with arrow keys. Disabling audio enhancements definitely helped but there was still a slight delay which I was unable to fix no matter what I tried which included installing the latest Realtek drivers and running the SFC and Dism commands. My sixth generation I7 Dell Lattitude, which also uses Realtek drivers, provides completely instant response and if I can’t have that same level of responsiveness with an 11th-generation I5 I don’t want the laptop. I’ve alerted Asus about this but wanted to throw that out there as a possible warning. Based on feedback from these groups I’m assuming the problem isn’t all that common but it happens enough that I think some organized advocacy with Realtek is definitely in order.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
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From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lori Lynn
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 12:12 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I also went through the process of buying a new laptop this summer. It was more complicated by the fact that I live in a very small town and the nearest place to actually look at more than 2 or 3 is about 50 miles away. I also strongly wanted a numpad as well. Part of it is I’m older and wanted what I’m use to having. Part of it is also because I felt that having a separate keyboard was more cumbersome than I wanted to deal with. I ended up getting a 17 inch Del through Amazon. I found that if it has a numpad then it will be mentioned in the description. Remember that you are the one who will be using it, so get what you want and can afford.

Lori Lynn


From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Abraham
Sweiss
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 10:53 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I would buy an external keyboard

Thanks,abraham


On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:54 AM, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:


If having a numeric keypad on your laptop’s keyboard is important to you I’d recommend two things. First, look at the description of the laptop on the page since it might mention that a number pad is included. If it doesn’t I would send a link to a sighted person to ask if they see a number pad on the keyboard.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

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From: main@jfw.groups.io<main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phillip
Gross
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:07 AM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Buying a laptop

I, like others, don't use the numpad. In fact, at home where I use a bluetooth keyboard, I still use laptop layout, but that's just my preference.

Anyway, you have two options. If you never travel with your laptop, then I would go get a keyboard that you like. Try several and see which one fits you best. If you do travel with your laptop, then get an external numpad. That will fit in a laptop bag and shouldn't take up much room.




















































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