moderated Re: email clients

Marty Hutchings

                Sieghard,  I wasn't going to say anything here, but I must say "Well said" to you.  Now, I am going to Mute this topic.


From: <> On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: email clients


Rick, maybe you can ask Brian for a tutorial on how to send a message directly to a list member rather than to the list in general, but then of course sometimes when this happens one really sees deeper into another person's personality and I must say your insults and petty attitude do not say much about yours.

. You keep going on about how you stand up for all us poor blind people who "need" Brian's help and we are just all afraid to fall in line behind your personal fude with Brian.

I unfortunately have to tell you that you apparently live in a fantasy world, not all of us are needy and put up with Brian's personality because we can't live without his technological expertise. Furthermore and I have pointed this out before, why don't you just ignore Brian's posts if they get you so riled up. Have you ever worked in a company with a number of employees? Have you ever been part of other organisations with a number of members who need to interact and get along with each other? I would assume the answer is no because if you had or were you would know that in almost any large group there will be people who clash because of their personality and if they can't see past their differences and learn to either tolerate or ignore each other, nothing good ever comes of it. The result then is exactly what is happening here, one person starts a smeer campaign against another, that person is joined by one or two others who also feel that way towards the other person but who normally may not act on that themselves and of course the other person may or may not stand up against all the insults and misinformation. In this case there is you, Randy and I believe somebody called Gerald who has voiced some support, then there is Brian and what seems to be a rather large majority of other list members who seem perfectly fine with him and who think your little vandetta is simply over the top.

I have a business and employee only 3 to 5 people but even there I had situations when I hired somebody who just would not get along because of some issue they had. In one case a part-time employee came to me and asked me to basically fire my store manager who has worked for me for 15 years, he is a nice guy and liked by just about all other employees I have had and, what is more, he is liked by a large majority of my customers. But he is not afraid to speak his mind and he doesn't put up with any BS. When I told her I could hardly do this she told me on the spot "well then I'll quit" and that was that, she left and all was back to normal.

I do hope Brian remains steadfast in his willingness to remain a member of this list, he left the Windows 10 group, but I would strongly encourage him to stick it out and from now on to simply ignore your jabs and insults, if you can't learn to tolerate or at least ignore his posts then I suggest that you leave along with all those who you say messaged you privately and start a new Jaws group, if you are the nmoderator you can then indulge your powers and kick anybody off your list if they say something you don't like, but spare the rest of us who simply want to discuss Jaws and who are either here to learn or to help.

Remember Matthew 7:5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


This will be my last comment regarding this.


Best regards,



From: <> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: email clients


My appologies, that was to be direct but I made a mistake and sent direct through the list. I appologize and I’m not arguing against my thoughts towards him when one was attacked and now you all attack me for standing up for him as I would for any other blind person on this list he attacks. Again, my mistake putting this through the list and not direct to Randy.


From: <> On Behalf Of Ekstrand, Pamela A. -ND
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: email clients


Umm, who is the one calling names? 




From: <> On Behalf Of Rick Mladek via
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: email clients


Hi Randy,


I’m writing to apologize for my losing my patience with that jerk Brian Vogel again. He attacks blind people and I’ve witnessed this on different groups and what is as disgusting is those who defend him because he is valuable to the group, as they say. He may know about JFW and being he is not blind is what I cannot excuse and stay quiet. He is sighted and attacks those as yourself, blind, because of asking a question or addressing his sighted comments towards some specific topic. He has attacked women who are blind on other groups and I went off on him and he left the group. I really do not know why he is such a follower of the blind but his disrespect is just what I must stand up and fight him and his ways as well as those that defend him just because they need him to continue to help their technological needs. I could go on about that idiot but I’ll go and just want to let you know I was defending you and his attack on you as he does to many on these groups. If we do not put an end to his personal attacks, then who will? I’m sorry if I over-stepped my boundries but just know I was on your side trying to get that jerk to shut up.





From: <> On Behalf Of Randy Barnett
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: email clients


As always there are different points of view. But telling a blind person they are basiclly incompatent becuase something is written in a large bold box is not cool. I am surprised you think it is ok.

On 4/6/2021 8:34 AM, Don Walls wrote:

Rick, your message seems quite over-the-top.  I am blind and certainly am not offended by Brian’s comments.  As for Randy’s messages, they seem to follow a pattern of his persistent criticism of Brian and I can’t wonder that Brian is fed up with them.  Brian responds frequently to questions on this list and is generous with his time.  We are blind.  It doesn’t give us the mandate to trash others mindlessly with rants.




From: Rick Mladek

Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: email clients




It is an obvious pattern with you that you believe that just because you are sighted that you have the ability to talk down towards those who do not. For the administrator of this list, please shut this person up now for he has been this way on other lists/grops previously and has for the better, removed himself when those, as myself, step up and no longer will accept his rudeness, discriminative communication and outright condemnation towards those blind. Brian, do us a favor and go start your own list and again remove yourself from this. You again believe you are above those blind and I will not stand for this on this sight no more than I went up against you on the prevous site you removed yourself from. YOu have no ability to be cordial to those whom may not have as much knowledge towards a problem to have it corrected and although you may believe yourself superior, your the most ignorant individual most of us on these list groups have ever encountered. Remove yourself again and do us all a favor. I will not stand for you to be this way towards those in need and more, towards those blind seeking assistance. For the Administrator, I request this person be removed without further delay.



From: <> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: email clients


On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM, Randy Barnett wrote:

Once again you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

Randy, please stop your incessant preaching at me.  I have been around screen readers and screen reader users for well over a decade now.

I cannot help it if someone does not bother to vet the actual content of a page they post.  And my describing something in visual terms, as there are many here who did at one time have vision or still have some residual vision, cannot and should not be considered an insult to anyone who doesn't.

I don't give a damn about your opinions.

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

There are many who labor under the gross misapprehension that the Constitution is a cage and a laundry-list rather than a framework upon which great things have been and still will be built. Many things that are entirely Constitutional are not "in the Constitution," but are allowed under it.

            ~Brian Vogel

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