moderated Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!


Mary Ann, being a person who uses a pc with jaws, but also has an iPhone, it is so different how the two companies handle their disability support. I have found that Microsoft, has to be directed like some have said, and if they want to take over and fix it for you that’s nice, but I’m not learning anything if it happens again. When I call Apple support, they go through the problem step by step, and if requires remote access to my phone, they still tell me what to do. Now I do realize that theirs is a system where everyone has voice over, unlike having a pc which can be using various screen readers, but you would still think a company as huge as Microsoft could have some people better trained. JMHO Judy & Libby


From: [] On Behalf Of Marianne Denning
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!


I am not talking about the mainstream companies. The reason we call a disability help desk in a large company like Microsoft is because they have the knowledge on how to work with people who are blind. I usually find that the people at the Microsoft help desk want to take over my computer and make the changes and I go along with it. In an ideal world they would walk us through a nonvisual way to get the job done but I know that won’t happen any time in the near future. If I need them to do all of this visually that is certainly job security for them.


From: <> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!


I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change. Definitely true and no I don’t find it offensive.  There has to be a meeting in the middle though. Sometimes people expect others to cater to them and on the other side of the equation, the other person can refuse to change their terminology or practices. Years ago I’d run into with my phone company those who would say, “It can’t be done!”  When I delved into it the fact was they never tried to do it, just assumed it couldn’t be done My idea is, at least try and do something don’t just say it can’t be done.        


From: <> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: March 5, 2021 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Need Microsoft Disability phone number!


On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 12:36 AM, Leedy Diane Bomar wrote:

There are many reasons why this is the most imaginable offensive question.

Then, Diane, we definitely come from very, very different worlds.  I can come up with at least 20 questions, off the top of my head, that exceed this one in offensiveness.

There can be people who are being offensive, but I have very clearly explained why it is foolish, yes, foolish to assume that without additional evidence

And I will say, again, that all accessibility is a workaround.  In the case of screen readers, it is the substitution of audition for vision.  The two senses are in no way directly equivalent.  This will always entail compromises and while the experience can be substantially the same when it comes to text-based information, it will never be for many things that cannot be captured that way.

And the idea that "light dependence no longer needs to be the only way to access information" has been here, now, for quite a while.  But the fact is, and will always remain, that visual media, and anything on a computer besides text is just that, is going to be designed primarily with that in mind.  That it should be accessible, to the maximal extent possible, via other means should be a given in good design.  But do not delude yourself into thinking that even things most ideally designed for maximal accessibility can, or will, ever be able to give you "exactly the same information" that the sighted get, because they can't.

And, by the way, my earlier comments regarding tech support was for tech support dedicated to screen reader users or users of other assistive technology.  Most techs not in that arena have no reason to know about assistive technology.  It is not cost effective to try to train every generic help desk person in how to use a screen reader, particularly since most larger companies do have dedicated AT support and smaller companies have to pick where their money goes  If there is not a substantial blind user base of a given product, and the maker is a small company down to "mom and pop," they cannot reasonably be expected to have screen reader literate tech support.

And that's not because you're less of a person, or less worthy of respect  It's because you are part of a tiny minority in the general population and there are limited resources, financial and otherwise.  I really cannot believe that anyone who is blind does not understand this, I really can't.  And if that's offensive to say, so be it, because it is a fact, and one that is never, ever going to change.    

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.

           ~ André Gide

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