moderated Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>
Just looked it up, make sure you disable “Native UI automation” in the experimental flags menu:
1. Open Edge and go to the address bar with Alt + D
2. Type edge://flags and press enter
3. Search for “Native UI Automation” or go through the list and find it (it’s a long list)
4. Check to see if it’s disabled, if it is not disable it, if it is already disabled I am not sure why you are still having issues.
From: email@example.com <firstname.lastname@example.org> On Behalf Of Patrick Murphy
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
Yes, it is the new chrome version of edge that I am using with jaws 2018.
If you could find out what needed to be disabled, that would be great, as I cannot use jaws 2020.
I did some research, and from what I have read, edge is the most likely to save on your battery.
The only drawback I can find with it, and google chrome, is that there is no way to bypass the “this is not a secure site” warning.
I have a server on my network that I know is ok, but because of the certificate, I cannot access its web interface.
Brave does allow for it, but it seems to be eating up my battery. Don’t know why.
From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
The new Edge is chromium based and once again your experience with the find command seems to be unique to you, I have been using the new Edge as my default browser on my laptop at home and 4 PC’s at work and it performs well and I have no problems with the Jaws find command. If, however, you are using Jaws 2018 with it, then that would explain some of your issues, there is a Setting in Edge you have to enable or disable, can’t remember which, back in January when there were lots of discussions about Edge this came up, but I think it was the Jaws 2020 February update which made this change in Edge no longer necessary.
Tom, I would say definitely press NumPad + Minus when you are in the Support Assist app and see if you hear “Jaws cursor” or “scan cursor”. If the scan cursor becomes active that means it’s a Windows 10 app where this may do you some good. You can’t force the scan cursor to become active, it’s the same key as the Jaws cursor, but if Jaws detects an app where it may help it will automatically activate it. The touch cursor which you can also try is activated by pressing Shift + PC cursor (Numpad Plus). You deactivate it by quickly pressing the PC cursor twice. Keep in mind that with the touch cursor mostly what you can do to navigate around is to use the arrow keys.
I just had an update from the Intel Driver and Support Assistant which was for my WiFi drivers and once the installation started only switching to the scan cursor allowed me to read what was on the screen and to click Next, I Agree etc.
From: email@example.com <firstname.lastname@example.org> On Behalf Of
Perhaps I should clarify myself a bit in relation to my last message.
I was using support assist as described previously with jaws 2018.
I was able to use version 3 when it came out, but it wasn’t as accessible as version 2.
When I installed jaws 2020, version 3 became more inaccessible.
I accept, that my problems with jaws 2020 are not universal, but no matter where I went, who I emailed, or who I rang, the answer was always the same.
“we don’t know what is wrong” or
“freedom scientific cannot be held responsible for all apps”.
I accept this, but given the fact, that windows 10 apps use Microsoft edge as their base, freedom scientific should bare some of the blaim for this as well.
Afterall, they did say, that Microsoft edge (the original one), was supported.
Sieghard, you could be right, in that the “scan” cursor may achieve what tom needs.
However, given my experience with jaws 2020, even if I still had it installed, I couldn’t say for sure, as I cannot be sure of its installation.
Generally, I have found del computers to be ok, and technical support will log in and help you as much as they can, if you have a support agreement with them.
You also mentioned the various chrome browsers.
In case it is of use to anyone:
Brave works fine with jaws 2018 as does google chrome.
However, microsoft’s new chrome edge does not.
If you use the ctrl+f to find something on the page, you actually go into the Microsoft “find” box.
The new edge is supposed to have implamented the basic functions of the chrome engine.
Don’t depend on it.
It constantly tells you that things are “unavailable” even when they are not.
Again, another good reason to upgrade to jaws 2020.
Ups!!! Can’t do that!!!
I also think, that brave is eating up my battery compared to edge and chrome. However, I haven’t verified this yet.
I know, that this is totally off tom’s problem, but it might be of use to someone.
I don’t think Patrick’s experience with Jaws 2020 is universal and in fact he did not say that this Support Assist from Del works better with Jaws 2018, he said that the previous version of Support Assist worked, but that Support Assist version 3 was inaccessible and he merely said “It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!”
Every piece of software has bugs and for me Jaws 2020 certainly works a lot better than Jaws 2018 or 2019 because Vispero has been and is making changes which allow Jaws 2020 to read a lot more again with the Jaws cursor and in Windows 10 apps the new Jaws can cursor may often act very similar to the Jaws cursor previously and it will read stuff you otherwise would have no access to. If this Support Assist software is in fact a Windows 10 app the scan cursor may be of great benefit here. I don’t own a Del computer so I can’t say and in fact on my Asus Zenbook which had a similar piece of software on it but of course from Asus I completely reinstalled Windows 10 to get rid of all that stuff and have a basic, clean install of Windows 10.
You should further keep in mind that if I remember correctly Jaws 2018 does not support the emoji panel in Windows 10 and by now there may be other issues, certainly as more and more Windows 10 updates are released the more likely it is you run into problems with Jaws 2018 and I am not sure how well it handles the latest chromium based browsers like Google Chrome, Edge or Brave compared to Jaws 2020.
Once again this is my take on things, I understand Patrick’s frustration, but I don’t see his experience widely reported and it unfortunately seems to be the case that certain system configurations can result in weird issues which are very much issues one or a few people experience. I am not usually somebody who immediately advises to reinstall Windows and I understand you may not even be able to do so if your computer is a work computer, , but in some cases that can really fix things. As for Del’s Support Assist it would appear that it’s more of an issue which Del needs to address in making the application screenreader accessible, you can’t expect Vispero to write scripts for all sorts of apps out there which may change without notice making major changes to the scripts necessary, each software developer needs to also do their part in writing accessible software or designing accessible web pages etc.
Lastly, with an application like Support Assist which seems to be inaccessible your approach, Tom, to ask for sighted assistance every now and then to install updates the system alerts you to might be a good solution and I’d not hesitate to call Del and ask them to log in and do so because after all they made the app and if a blind person can’t use they should also be held responsible for helping out.
i couldn't agree with you more!!
i am still using jaws 2018 because of all the problems i have encountered with jaws 2020, the new grace period authorization, it not accessing things that jaws 2018 used to, etc.
i know, that at some stage, i will have to upgrade. however, i am going to wait as long as i can.
you can still download jaws 2018 from the freedom scientific page, and your authorization key should work for this just fine.
if you do this however, be careful!!!
i downgraded, as i had a trial version of jaws 2020.
when doing this, i had to uninstall jaws 2020, jaws 2018, get rid of shared and user settings, go to programs and features, uninstall everything relating to freedom scientific, go into all the program and user folders in windows and delete everything here relating to freedom scientific here as well.
after that, i had to install ccleaner and use it to clean up all temporary files and the registery.
only then, did jaws 2018 install correctly.
sorry folks about going on and on about jaws 2020, but in my opinion, keep your money and dont upgrade until freedom scientific gets their house in order.
i wouldn't even accept a free version of it at the moment.
I have to say that this is ridiculous.
I shouldn’t have to go back to Jaws 2018 to get something to work at least somewhat correctly when I’ve paid for Jaws 2020.
I don’t even know if I have Jaws 2018 here any more.
I think that, at this point, I’m just going to get sighted assistance with Dell Support Assist every so often, or simply live without the Dell updates.
Before I completely throw in the towell, I will try to work with the touch cursor as Mike from the list suggests, but I am not optimistic.
I have had a del inspiron for the last year. When I got it, it had support assist version 2 which worked just fine.
Then it updated to version 3 which is totally unaccessable.
In most cases, windows apps use Microsoft edge as their base. I mean the original edge, not the chrome version.
If you install the chrome version it makes no difference, so don’t bother.
If you keep tabbing around, adventually, you will hit the menu option. From there, just go down and up with the pc cursor. This seems to work for me.
When you get to the menu, you can also hit “1” and this should bring you to the first heading, or try “b” which should bring you to the “run all” button.
Don’t down-grade it to version 2, or you will loose a lot of functionality, and anyway, it will just update again. There seems to be no way to stop it from updating.
It is worth mentioning, that I am running jaws 2018. I have had experience with jaws 2020, and in my opinion, there is more bugs in it than there is in a nest of wasps!!!
Don’t get me started on that!!!
Anyway, to get back to this:
Make sure you also get help with disabling the option for it to run itself every so often.
If not, your computer will suddenly slow down, and you wont know what is happening, until you discover that it is running in the background.
Even turning this “run apps in the background” in windows 10 off, doesn’t stop it, because it seems to be on some sort of timer based on the computer’s clock.
Another thing to remember, is that it looks particularly for del drivers and bios updates as well as standard drivers.
I haven’t discovered any option in windows to check for a bios update, and even if I did, god knows what Microsoft would send you.
Support assist is based on your service tag. It is something, in my opinion, that del has done correctly.
There is another del application called “del update”. This is more accessible, but it only looks for driver and bios updates. Support assist, on the other hand, checks and tunes your hardware as well.
If you find, that support assist finds updates, but wont let you select urgent ones, it is because for some of them, the computer must be plugged in regardless of what remains in the battery.
I would say, in conclusion, that you try it with jaws 2018 if you can.
2018 seems, in general, to work better with this type of thing. As I said above, I really believe, that freedom scientific severely dropped the ball on 2020 with regards to stability and accessibility.
No, Mike, I did not.
I’m not even sure how to access the touch cursor!
I wish I could attend the webinar on various Jaws cursors tomorrow, but I’ve got something else going on at the time.
Did you try using the touch cursor?
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Behler
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: what is support assist, and how do you make it work/?
I’ve tried starting support assist from the start menu, but still can’t get to the needed options and other info with Jaws 2020 on this Windows 10 PC.
I must be missing something.
Try starting it from the start menu instead, that worked better for me.