moderated Re: Esoteric punctuation question.


Flor Lynch
 

I wish I had known that in 1998 when I was doing computer typing speed tests. <grin>.

-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 10:42 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi.

At the risk of going a bit off-topic for the list -- how long ago was your
keyboarding class?
The reason people used to put two spaces after periods had to do with manual
typewriters and the "monospace" font style they used. Every character took
up exactly the same amount of horizontal space on a piece of paper, so as a
result, it could sometimes be difficult to tell there was a space at all at
the end of some sentences unless the typist used two of them. This has
changed since the advent of electric typewriters, and, indeed, computers,
with their myriad numbers of proportional font styles. In fact though, the
so-called two space rule you would have learned in keyboarding class was
introduced *only* because of the typewriter. You would not have seen a
professionally typeset book done this way.

The tone is maybe a little bit strident, but this article from Slate
explains the history of it all pretty well.
https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/two-spaces-after-a-period-why-you-shoul
d-never-ever-do-it.html


-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Hutchings
Sent: August 19, 2019 4:11 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I remember back in my keyboarding class that you are to put 2 spaces after a
period at the end of each sentence. I notice too many times lately in
things that I read that there is only 1 space after the period. this could
make some difference.



Love in Christ
Marty
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers,
against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the
spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist
in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Ephesians 6:12, 13
-----Original Message-----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:24 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

It's not JAWS or NVDA, but the synthesiser you are using, I think, that
injects pauses where appropriate, or not, as the case may be.

Why would you end a sentence and not begin the next one with a capital
letter? That is proper. The synth has rules that it tries to follow, and
those rules should approximate actual grammar rules.

What synth are you using with NVDA? If you switch to the same synth using
JAWS, I bet you will find their behaviour will also be the same. I can't
guarantee it, because this isn't something I have thought about much. I like
a very short pause; the 1core voices from Microsoft drive me nuts with their
default setting of a pause of, I think, over a second after a period.
Eloquence is about right, for me.



-----Original Message-----
From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: August 19, 2019 2:16 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I just tried with NVDA and discovered that if a following sentence after a
period and space starts with a capitol letter, the pause is there. if this
is the correct way to have a pause before a new sentense is read, then why
does JAWS pause even if the first letter of a sentence following a period
and a space is not capitolized, is this wrong?

I'd still would like to know those tweaks Robin eluded too.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

if I may ask, what tweaks would that be? I find that using the Espeak NG
with NVDA, sometimes there is a pause after a period and sometimes there
isn't any pause. it's like two sentences spoken as one long one. it doesn't
make any difference which variant is tried. so it seems that it's an NVDA
issue? if not, what can I do about it?





-------- Original Message --------
From: Van Lant, Robin via Groups.Io
[mailto:Robin_Van_Lant=Key.com@groups.io]
To: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019, 10:47 AM
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

I don't think Vocalizer is any better. Much of the time the pause is an
acceptable level, but there are enough times when it's almost as if there is
no pause at all. I'll go back to see if I forgot to type a period and find
one there, but Vocalizer doesn't pause as I would hope.
I'll play with the recommended tweaks someone posted.





From: main@jfw.groups.io <main@jfw.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:33 PM
To: main@jfw.groups.io
Subject: Re: Esoteric punctuation question.

I think that a pause after a period is largely synthesiser dependent. So
some synths will insert longer ones, others won't. By default, the 1core
voices from Microsoft have what is, to me, an insanely lengthy pause between
both period and the next sentence and after a comma. You can adjust this in
a very well hidden and protected .ini file. I don't think Eloquence has
anything similar. Maybe reduce the general speech rate (although I know this
isn't exactly what you want), or try Vocalizer, or one of the Microsoft
voices.


From: main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>
<main@jfw.groups.io<mailto:main@jfw.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
fenderwal@...<mailto:fenderwal@...>
Sent: August 17, 2019 7:05 AM
To: jfw@groups.io<mailto:jfw@groups.io>
Subject: Esoteric punctuation question.

Hi, folks.

I decided to get serious about learning JFW. Lots of interesting
discoveries, and, a few puzzles.

Here is one. I noticed that with or without punctuation spoken, JAWS kind of
rushes past what I consider to be normal length punctuation pause intervals.
With Window-Eyes, I was able to put a period character after char.chr
dictionary entries, thereby increasing the pause interval. This does not
work with the JAWS Eloquence voice, however. To my question.

Is there a setting in JAWS to adjust punctuation pause intervals?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Lou N.



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