Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Sieghard Weitzel <sieghard@...>

Hi Russell,

Glad you are seeing an improvement and I hope it stays. If I buy a laptop which has a lot of this sort of stuff on it I typically reinstall Windows from scratch. Of course this assumes you have a version of Windows that can be installed this way. I was actually pleasantly surprised when I recently purchased an Asus Zenbook as it had absolutely 0 bloatware on it. It had Office 2016 preinstalled which I was able to activate with my Office 365 subscription and of course it has a few system utilities for audio and such, but there was no anti-virus trial, obscure online storage or anything like that. It came with Windows 10 Home 64 Vit and I was prepared to install Windows 10 Professional since I prefer it for my business, but the system worked so well that I decided to spend the money for the upgrade even though I have a USB stick with a Windows 10 Pro installation on it and I have enough Windows 7 Pro keys I could have used to activate it. I did the upgrade via the store which was a bit inaccessible, but I managed and the extra features were unlocked.
This was an expensive laptop at about $1,900 Canadian, but it has one of the latest sixth generation I7 processors, came with 16 Gb of RAM and a 512 Gb SSD, it also has a 4K touch screen and it's quite a lot of laptop. My old Acer which only cost $800 when I bought it 5 years ago is still running, but it was starting to degrade so I decided to buy myself an early christmas present with this laptop. Also very impressed with 8 to 10 hours of battery life depending on what I do, the built-in speakers sound great and the keyboard is very nice. It's a 15.6 inch model and also has a full numeric pad which I like since I have never gotten used to using Jaws with the laptop keyboard layout. Only thing that takes a bit getting used to is the fact that the Jaws Key (insert key on the numeric pad) is the same size as all other keys, on a full size keyboard it's usually twice the size and is underneath bot the 1 and 2 on the numeric pad, here it is under the 2 and under the 1 is the right arrow key.


From: [] On Behalf Of Melissa Stott
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Glad that you were able to get your issues resolved. I too will be having a brand new computer very soon. Of course, having your computer cleaned out some does help quite a bit! I'm glad that I'm not having sluggishing issues though.

-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi everyone,

Well, I called the Microsoft Disability Answer desk this morning to try to solve some of the issues I’ve been having with sluggishness in Outlook 2016 and in IE 11. The person I spoke to took control of my laptop and uninstalled a whole lot of Lenovo stuff that came installed on my laptop when I purchased it 3 years ago. Things are now working so much better. I feel like I have a new computer again. I’ve been blaming all these issues on Jaws 17 and 18, but I am thinking now that I just needed to get rid of all that bloatware. Mind you, it’s only been a few hours, so the jury is still out.

If things keep working as they are now, I may owe VFO an apology!! 😊

Take care all.


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Russell Solowoniuk
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Amen Maria! I totally agree! I'm finding that IE 11 continually freezes and crashes a lot lately with Jaws... I think it's with both Jaws 17 and 18 though. I'd much rather have VFO work on these types of issues instead of things like having Jaws speak while moving the mouse! Just my opinion!


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Maria Campbell
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

I have also been very disappointed in the increasing instability of JAWS in Internet Explorer, especially since Edge isn't even supported at all at this time. I would be much happier to pay for greater future stability than for new features that I may never, or hardly ever use.

Maria Campbell

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries.
Without them, humanity cannot survive.
--Dalai Lama

On 12/9/2016 2:59 PM, Gudrun Brunot wrote:
Music to my ears, Tim. Thank you for taking the time and going to the
trouble to put this in a nutshell for us. I know I've been noticing
with JAWS and not been able to figure out whether it was because I
wasn't spending enough time reading the training material from FS or
whether it
my configuration or JAWS settings. What I've had difficulty with is
where I get stuck in some toolbar and told that I'm on a tab that I
can't get out of, whether I tab, control-tab, or arrow around. All I
can do is close the site and reopen it. That has been extremely
irritating and time-consuming for a long time.

Yeah for stability.


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:20 PM
Subject: JAWS 17 and 18 have some basic inherent flaw.

Hi All,

I warn readers that my post here is a bit long, but for those of you
who want to help things improve with JAWS, I urge you to take the time
to consider my observations and opinions described below.

Back early on with JAWS 17, I reported to Freedom Scientific the
sluggishness I was experiencing. I also reported that on this list.
time, nobody else seemed to be having the problem, and FS said they
heard of anyone but me having the problems. Maybe I was the first,
it seems obvious the problem is steadily affecting more and more of us.

I tried every update of JAWS 17, hoping it would fix the problems, but
the sluggishness became worse. I tried all beta test versions of JAWS
18, and although it seemed a bit better, eventually J 18 was impacted
to the point that I quit using it.

I completely uninstalled every piece of FS software, other than Open
Book, and did a new install of JAWS 16 from the installation CD. I
have not had any of the sluggishness, now going on about 3 weeks.

It thus seems clear there is a fundamental problem with J 17 and 18,
affects different computers at different rates of onset, like a
started slowly, and is now gathering steam as it spreads.

My machine is an HP laptop running Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit, with 6 GB of
It is a state government agency machine, with Semantic encryption and
anti-virus, and Office 2013. Somewhere in our experiences are the
clues towards a solution, and I hope FS figures it out soon.

For now, I will stay with J 16. If I decide that JAWS is not worth
the problems, I will go to NVDA, but not beat myself up any longer
the performance problems JAWS 17-18 have. My current license is good only
up to version 17, and I just wont' pay for any more worthless upgrades.

From my vague recollection, to find good JAWS stability, we would
have to
back to something like JAWS 7, maybe up to 10, but after that, FS was
focusing too much on developing new features, in order to justify us
continuing to work with them.

That said, I also appreciate that Windows and web design has become
vastly more complicated, to come up with all those nifty visual
features, and it has been a constant battle for screen readers to keep
up. JAWS is losing the battle.

My humble suggestion is that Freedom Scientific should accept that
JAWS basic stability and features have now become too unstable for most of us.
JAWS created the new "feature" of having an automatic reboot of JAWS
when the system senses a lockup. That "feature" is a complete
how unstable JAWS has become.

In order for a private vendor such as FS to be motivated to quit
features for a while, and concentrate on stability of what JAWS
JAWS users need to send a clear message to FS, that we will be willing
to accept less new glitz, in exchange for stability.

Maybe us JAWS users have to share some of the blame for allowing
ourselves to get excited about new JAWS versions, but we never were
asked whether we valued new features over stability. I suggest that
it is now time for us
make that clear, that glitz is fine, but not at the expense of stable
performance for our day in and day out use of computers.

Thank you for considering my long rant.,

Tim Ford

Join to automatically receive all group messages.