Re: Are there any NVDA (or WindowEyes) and JAWS "dual users" or people who've used both here?


Maria Campbell
 

Brian, you might mess around with the new smart navigation insert X combination of keys introduced with JAWS 17. I'm not convinced that it works that well, but it is supposed to make the web page more like what the sighted see. Sorry, I'm not much of a techie, either, but I truly believe that the navigation system of JAWS is beyond compare. It's the best way I can describe it without being able to go into more detail. However, this thought might simply be based on the fact that I've been using JAWS for quite a long time. It's hard for me to understand how people can switch between WindowEyes and JAWS, with the two systems so differently configured. I could be wrong but NVDA may be closer to JAWS in its application.

I use place markers extensively to jump over unwanted ads, links, frames, etc., once I know the layout of the web page.

One regret is, as you say, the seeming inability for my husband and me to be on the same page, so to speak, when I get into trouble, and he can't figure out where the heck I am.

The expert on NVDA on the list is Joseph Lee. Perhaps he may chime in with a few of his thoughts.

On 12/30/2015 2:44 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond.

The main thing I'm trying to do for myself is to get a bit better grip
on "what's what" as far as web browsing goes. I frequently use INS+F6,
list headings, and INS+F7, list links, with my clients as well as the
Navigation Quick Keys. I have never had a good grasp (or I don't think
I do, anyway) regarding Forms Mode, Table Navigation, or PlaceMarkers
(though the concept for the last one is very clear to me). When you can
see it's not nearly so necessary to know the actual structures within
HTML that JAWS and other screen readers rely upon to make your
navigation of these pages as quick and painless as possible, and I
sometimes think that I'm going "around Jake's barn" with regard to web
browsers and JAWS because don't have a clear grasp of the above nor
Frames or Elements.

The whole JAWS Cursor versus PC Cursor is utterly maddening to me
because JAWS focus can switch without a corresponding visual move of the
information displayed such that it can, for instance, be on a radio
button that's not visible on the screen to me, which can make, no pun
intended, getting on the same page as my client more than a bit of a
challenge. I also wish I had more practice with using the mouse
functions without actually using the mouse (although I admit I encourage
my clients to use the physical left and right click buttons on the mouse
pad on a laptop because they can be easily distinguished via tactile
means - I just create a permanent mask over the mousing area itself so
that it does not interfere with pointer movement or accidental click
activation).

If either NVDA or WindowEyes is substantially the same in its handling
of these things at least I could get some sense of what might happen in
a session as far as possible or probable trouble spots beforehand.
Heaven knows I've got enough experience to be able to think on my feet
and consult the keystrokes document at relatively high speed, but
sometimes a bit of actual practice would probably help me.

One of the really tricky things, but one I'm used to, is that there is
virtually no sense in even thinking about something as structured as a
lesson plan with the clients I work with. Most of the time by the time
I'm called in they have a long list of "things I need to be able to do,
some tomorrow and many yesterday" that I just walk through with them
based on their prioritization of same. This is nothing like teaching a
formal class and there are always the bugs one finds in JAWS (with some
frequency) and/or technical support issues that unmask themselves as
part of the whole process.

I really love this work and always want to find ways that I can improve
my service delivery.

Brian, who still has to "shut JAWS up" when short bursts of really
intensive work show up that I really need to do that are unrelated to
the client's JAWS goals - I doubt I'll ever get entirely comfortable
with the endless narration!

--

Sunny Day
Maria Campbell
lucky1@...

Be patient with God: Be patient with yourself: Be patient with others.

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