Re: A Modest Proposal


Gerald Levy
 

Let me get this straight. You walk around with a mobile device in one hand and a bluetoot keyboard in the other hand. So I guess you need to grow a third hand to type on the keyboard and a fourth hand to hold your white cane or guide dog harness. How do you grow an extra pair of hands? So it seems to me that using a mobile device with a bluetoot keyboard is not very practical for a blind person on the go.

Gerald

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cristobal" <crismunoz54@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Even sighted people have to deal with these hazards. Just get a keyboard for
the phone and away you go. And yes, one can become pretty proficient with a
bluetooth keyboard for a cell phone. Don't forget the whole crackberry
condition. Even on my old HTC TYTN with it's slide out keyboard, I could
shoot off texts with minimal effort. There are some very nice keyboards for
the complete touch screen smartphones now that have only improved the
experience.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 2:14 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

boy Gerald, you assume that your situation applies to everyone else's. *LOL*
But yes, these things are distracting, not just for the blind. Ever heard of
distracted drivers not looking at the road while texting, and speeding along
at 70 mph?



At 04:52 PM 9/24/2012, you wrote:

Once again, you can type far faster and more efficiently on a full-size
tactile keyboard. And please don't tell me that you use your IPhone to
send emails on the go. Any blind person who walks around with an
IPhone glued to one ear with a white cane or guide dog harness in the
other hand is just asking for trouble. So while an IPhone may be a
greatmobile device for a sighted person, it can be a potential
distracting nightmare for a blind person. Sorry, but no blind person ,
no matter what they claim to the contrary, can safely walk around and
use a mobile device at the same time.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dierckens"
<matt.dierckens@gmail.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


regarding your comment on not being able to type quickly on an IPhone?
RII mini-bluetooth keyboard, $45 from AT Guys. Using it now, on the
IPhone to write this email.
It fits in your pocket, about the size of the phone. Very great little
keyboard.
Matt
Sent from my Iphone.

On 2012-09-24, at 2:17 PM, "Gerald Levy"
<bwaylimited@verizon.net> wrote:


So exactly what do you use your IPad for? If you use it to store
notes and contacts, this can be accomplished far more cheaply by a
simple Olympus digital recorder. If you already have a computer at
work or home, then it seems to me that an IPad is superfluous.

Gerald


----- Original Message ----- From: "Cristobal"
<crismunoz54@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Not so fast... I have an acquaintance who through his state agency
obtained an iPad and Bluetooth keyboard instead of a traditional
note taker. I think he also received a Braille display (I don't know
which model) and if memory serves, everything came out cheaper than
the note taker would have.
Earlier this year, I too was considering buying an Apex from
Humanware and after testing it out, I was more sold on the
flexibility of the iPad. With a keyboard instead of the Apex. I also
bought a 40 cell display.
Everything in
my circumstance came out to a third of the cost than the Apex would
have.
Even if I were to throw in my iPhone in an unlocked scenario (I'm
actually on contract), the cost for the tablet, keyboard, display
and phone is still less than the note taker. When my acquaintance
asked me for my opinion when he was working with his case manager, I
commented to him my experience and he pitched it to his rep and low
and behold... He received what he requested.

It's true that tablets aren't yet replacements for computers, but in
my opinion anyway, note takers for the blind can't hold a candle to
accessible tablets or accessible smart phones anymore. Especially
when you factor in the cost of all devices. That's not even taking
into consideration the various accessibility related apps that can
often replace the function of a blindness oriented gadget.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:30 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


To be perfectly honest, purchasing I-devices by blind rehab agencies
for clients is an outrageous waste of taxpayer money, as these
agencies are largely funded by state commissions for the blind. No
I-device can ever completely replace a computer. They are designed
to be mobile devices, not devices that can be used in a typical work
environment. They don't even have tactile keyboards just
touchscreens, so it is physically impossible to type on them as fast
as you can on a standard , full size keyboard. Can you compose and
print documents or read your mail with an IPad? Of course not.
But, you say, you can send and receive text messages better with an
IPad than with a computer. But why should a blind agency pay for
such a device when you can accomplish the same thing with a
telephone? And please don't tell me about all those "cool" apps
available for the IPad and IPhone. To me, the I-devices are little
more than overpriced status symbols whose functionality can be
duplicated by cheaper devices.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
Actually it may never happen in some places, but MN is doing some
serious training and providing iDevices in many situations.
I know of a person in CA who's already started teaching people on
both platforms as well. The iPad is also being purchased by a lot
of schools for LD students who (in the old days) might have used a
PC-based system such as
K3000 or Magic.
So the times, they are a'changin'.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:26 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major
blind rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as
an alternative to Windows computers for their clients. Why?
Because it would mean that their technology trainers would have to
be familiar with two totally different operating systems, program
sets and keyboard commands. Plus, the rehab center would have to
purchase and maintain two totally incompatible groups of hardware.
That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies simply don't
have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients for
jobs in the business world which relies heavily on Windows
computers, not Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology
trainer at the rehab center, and his attitude was that if I wanted
to learn how to use a Mac , I would have to do it on my own. This
particular agency has had a long-standing relationship with Dell
and purchases all their hardware from them. So naturally, their
clients only receive training on Windows machines. To their
credit, they did offer me a choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I
was totally unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm
still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population
of users
who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in
the first place, we need to insist to those who are doing the
purchasing that we want something else. If some agency is buying
computer equipment for blind
folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac,
for example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand
per computer,
they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue
source (fill in agency names here) and recommend that they
support another competing product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be
willing to sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone
to do anything. It just underscores how serious the problem has
become to the people Freedom Scientific Depends on most,
ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non
petitioner, to sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for
such assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable,
bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number
of SMAs left or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you
suggest for persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond
what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much
anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation
that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going
to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
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