Re: A Modest Proposal


Gerald Levy
 

This would all make a lot of sense except for one little detail that I-device users like to ignore. Using an IPhone or IPad will cost at least $50 per month and in some cases, even more. That's on top of the $30 to $50 per month you pay for Internet service. To buy an IPhone, you have to make at least a $1500 commitment over two years. These same people moan and bitch about the high cost of JAWS, yet willingly shell out big bucks for an I-device and claim that it is a bargain. They apparently have a distorted sense of priorities.

Gerald

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cristobal" <crismunoz54@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


I have four separate email accounts on my iPad (one personal and 3
business), Google Voice and Skype for textign and making calls, note taking
apps, video and audio recording capabilities apps for reading of books be it
in mp3, daisy, ebooks, etc. Other accessibility related apps include
Learning Ally, NFB Newsline color identification apps (though not the best
with an iPad, can work in a pinch) and so on. Not to mention everything else
one can do with the tablet that is impossible with just a note taker by
itself for example. When I was doing my homework on whether to get the Apex,
I was talking to a rep about it and even though it was their job to talk up
the product, their arguements just didn't convince me. Yes, those types of
blindness targetted devices may have in some aspects more designs and
features taylored to a visually impaired user, but the idea of dropping
nearly $6,000.00 on something just because it has a braille display built
into it did not convince me in the least. Everything the Apex had, the iPad
already came with or I could find an app to get that particular feature and
more often than not, the app was simply better.

Having the tablet frees me from being tied to my computer in many instances.
The iPhone too is a great example of a swiss army knife of accessible
goodness. All the apps mentioned above and with a better camera makes other
apps like money identification, color identification, scanning text to
speech, taking photos of canned or boxed items and tagging them with a voice
lable for later reference, barcode reader, GPS and so on.

Again, even if one were to purchase just the phone unlocked at $800.00 or so
for a larger model, that's a lot less than what it would cost to buy all the
various accessible gizmos to replicate similar actions. I'm completely blind
so all the low vision stuff is irrelevent to me, but for partially sighted
folks, the iPad (especially the newest model) can be used with its camera as
a cctv along with all the other magnification features it's got built into
it. So, again, for $800.00 for a larger storage iPad, iPod or iPhone for
that matter, how is that not a great deal and why wouldn't state agencies
consider such devices? Numbers don't lie. These devices are in many
instances a solid replacement for a bundle of all those other things at much
less of an overall cost.

I'm glad my acquaintance was able to get what he wanted and not get talked
into a crazy priced note taker which is basically a stripped down netbook
with braille display just because of whatever cosy relationship vendors may
have with agencies.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:17 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


So exactly what do you use your IPad for? If you use it to store notes and
contacts, this can be accomplished far more cheaply by a simple Olympus
digital recorder. If you already have a computer at work or home, then it
seems to me that an IPad is superfluous.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cristobal" <crismunoz54@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Not so fast... I have an acquaintance who through his state agency
obtained
an iPad and Bluetooth keyboard instead of a traditional note taker. I
think
he also received a Braille display (I don't know which model) and if
memory
serves, everything came out cheaper than the note taker would have.
Earlier this year, I too was considering buying an Apex from Humanware and
after testing it out, I was more sold on the flexibility of the iPad. With
a
keyboard instead of the Apex. I also bought a 40 cell display. Everything
in
my circumstance came out to a third of the cost than the Apex would have.
Even if I were to throw in my iPhone in an unlocked scenario (I'm actually
on contract), the cost for the tablet, keyboard, display and phone is
still
less than the note taker. When my acquaintance asked me for my opinion
when
he was working with his case manager, I commented to him my experience and
he pitched it to his rep and low and behold... He received what he
requested.

It's true that tablets aren't yet replacements for computers, but in my
opinion anyway, note takers for the blind can't hold a candle to
accessible
tablets or accessible smart phones anymore. Especially when you factor in
the cost of all devices. That's not even taking into consideration the
various accessibility related apps that can often replace the function of
a
blindness oriented gadget.

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com [mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:30 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


To be perfectly honest, purchasing I-devices by blind rehab agencies for
clients is an outrageous waste of taxpayer money, as these agencies are
largely funded by state commissions for the blind. No I-device can ever
completely replace a computer. They are designed to be mobile devices,
not
devices that can be used in a typical work environment. They don't even
have tactile keyboards just touchscreens, so it is physically impossible
to
type on them as fast as you can on a standard , full size keyboard. Can
you
compose and print documents or read your mail with an IPad? Of course
not.
But, you say, you can send and receive text messages better with an IPad
than with a computer. But why should a blind agency pay for such a device
when you can accomplish the same thing with a telephone? And please don't
tell me about all those "cool" apps available for the IPad and IPhone. To
me, the I-devices are little more than overpriced status symbols whose
functionality can be duplicated by cheaper devices.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Pierson" <joncpierson@gmail.com>
To: "'The Jaws for Windows support list.'" <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


Hi,
Actually it may never happen in some places, but MN is doing some serious
training and providing iDevices in many situations.
I know of a person in CA who's already started teaching people on both
platforms as well. The iPad is also being purchased by a lot of schools
for
LD students who (in the old days) might have used a PC-based system such
as
K3000 or Magic.
So the times, they are a'changin'.

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:26 AM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal


Never happen. I can tell you from personal experience with a major blind
rehab agency that they will never consider Apple computers as an
alternative
to Windows computers for their clients. Why? Because it would mean that
their technology trainers would have to be familiar with two totally
different operating systems, program sets and keyboard commands. Plus,
the
rehab center would have to purchase and maintain two totally incompatible
groups of hardware. That costs a lot of money, which most rehab agencies
simply don't have. Besides, the goal of blind rehab is to train clients
for
jobs in the business world which relies heavily on Windows computers, not
Macs. I discussed this issue with my technology trainer at the rehab
center, and his attitude was that if I wanted to learn how to use a Mac ,
I
would have to do it on my own. This particular agency has had a
long-standing relationship with Dell and purchases all their hardware
from
them. So naturally, their clients only receive training on Windows
machines. To their credit, they did offer me a choice of screen readers:
JAWS or System Access. Atthe the time I received my training, I was
totally
unfamiliar with System Access, so I chose JAWS. I'm still glad I did.

Gerald


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <csmart8@cogeco.ca>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


agreed. since many here, and probably many more in the population of
users
who are not on this mailing list did not pay for the product in the
first
place, we need to insist to those who are doing the purchasing that we
want something else. If some agency is buying computer equipment for
blind
folks and they find out that most people would be served by a Mac, for
example, even a Mac Mini, which would save them over a grand per
computer,
they might consider it.



At 04:01 AM 9/24/2012, you wrote:
Hi,
I think that stating that the clients would go to the revenue source
(fill
in agency names here) and recommend that they support another competing
product.
Money usually talks.

Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 7:30 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

No. We could drop the idea of sacrificing an SMA if that is too
problematic. The idea of stating that the petitioners would be willing
to
sacrifice an SMA doesn't really legally commit anyone to do anything.
It
just underscores how serious the problem has become to the people
Freedom
Scientific Depends on most, ultimately, its base of customers.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Guido Corona
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:19 PM
To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

Ed, are the petitioners volunteering me, definitely a non petitioner, to
sacrifice an SMA?

Are you trying to spend my own money? I do not recall asking for such
assistance.

Guido


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Marquette, Ed
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:00 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal

The petition, as I'm envisioning it, would just state that the
petitioners
would be willing to sacrifice an SMA to get a stable, bug-fixed version.
No
one is actually warranting that they have any particular number of SMAs
left
or otherwise available.


-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com
[mailto:jfw-bounces@lists.the-jdh.com]
On Behalf Of Karen Hughes
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:52 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal

i do not have any upgrades left in a s m a, so what would you suggest
for
persons like me. karen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marquette, Ed" <Ed.Marquette@KutakRock.com>
To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <jfw@lists.the-jdh.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: A Modest Proposal


OK.
The idea of sacrificing one SMA was really to underscore the
seriousness of the petitioners. I admit it may be beyond what is
essential.
It is one thing simply to sign a petition. Pretty much anyone
can do
that, but if users are so serious about the situation that they
would
willingly pay one SMA just to get what they should have been
delivered
anyway, that sends a powerful message. If you were going to buy a
screen reader for the first time or even if you were
recommending to
an agency the screen reader to endorse, wouldn't you hesitate
to go
with a product with users in revolt? Well, that's the
idea. Right
now, JAWS is the only screen reader that will do what I need
done, and I'm
grateful for that.
It is just ... Well I've said it already.

Making the SMA sacrifice a part of the petition was just an
idea. I
regard it as optional. Remember, I'm inviting comment, and I
appreciate yours.
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